swaugh3
New Member
I'd prefer scaling it down to nothing less than 40,000, making it a new intimate and permanent home for the Toronto Argonauts. If anything the national training centre should be built anyway, but someplace else.
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Toronto 2008 Olympics: A city that might have been
- Thread starter FutureMayor
- Start date
I'd prefer scaling it down to nothing less than 40,000, making it a new intimate and permanent home for the Toronto Argonauts. If anything the national training centre should be built anyway, but someplace else.
swaugh3
New Member
FILMPORT is now being built in the Port Lands. Isn't that getting in the way of the Olympic Waterfront plan?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Nope, the film studios was in the 2008 plan - to be used as press centre for the duration of the games.
re: Royson
He should remind himself that his favorite son, Lastman, was the one who put the nail in Toronto's Olympic coffin with that African cannibal "joke". Anti-poverty activists hardly made a ripple back in 2000.
AoD
re: Royson
He should remind himself that his favorite son, Lastman, was the one who put the nail in Toronto's Olympic coffin with that African cannibal "joke". Anti-poverty activists hardly made a ripple back in 2000.
AoD
ShonTron
Moderator
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I can't see how a gaggle of anti-poverty activists could have derailed the bid for 1996 - Toronto came in third, and the Headquarters of Coca-Cola came in first. After all, more serious and numerous human-right activists failed to defeat Beijing for 2008. The Lastman joke made it easier to vote for Beijing - for a country wanting to show off and show its might (kind of like 1936 Berlin!). To a lesser extent, Atlanta was to show off "the New South", and had the biggest Olympic sponsor behind it.
Tewder
Senior Member
...um, so Lastman's inappropriate and clumsy attempt at humour was worse than China's human rights issues?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Tewder:
This isn't about what is right, but the reality of bidding for the games. Lastman screwed up, period.
AoD
This isn't about what is right, but the reality of bidding for the games. Lastman screwed up, period.
AoD
syn
Senior Member
He screwed up, but I don't think that lost them the games. Beijing had the games from the start...unless they screwed up really badly.
Blovertis
Active Member
jn_12
Senior Member
Sorry, but would you mind naming a country that doesn't have some sort of issue that would jump to the forefront if a games was held there?
Reykjavik 2016?
FutureMayor
Active Member
Toronto Olympic Bids
1996 Olympic Bid
How Toronto lost the 1996 Olympics to a city like Atlanta is beyond me.
We were considered the frontrunners with the best technical bid once again in that race, especially since the whole world was ranting and raving about the opening of the Skydome. Yet years later we found out that Toronto didn't want to play the bride game.
Adding to Toronto's troubles were the "Bread not Circuses" who argued all about affordable housing. Istead of something as a result of a successful bid, we got nothing in the end.
The 1996 Games would have transformed what is now City Place into a huge mid-low rise Athletes Village into a sort of a St. Lawrence West. Bremner - Fort York Blvd would have been a new ceremonial blvd that connected downtown with the new Olympic Park at Exhibition Place/Ontario Place.
2008 Olympic Bid
2008 had a different set of rules, again we clearly had the best technical bid out of anyone. That fact that we scored higher and gained more votes than the Paris speaks volumes.
China was always going to be hard to beat, but it wasn't a sure slam dunk for them. Toronto was always the main competition. If Paris was taken off the ballot and we had to go another round of votes, who knows what the final tally would have been. Sydney beat Beijing by 2 votes for the 2000 Games.
As for the Lastman remarks, it clearly did not help our bid at the very crucial end of the process. It distracted the IOC members and if anything gave them an excuse to give the 2008 Olympics to Beijing.
The 2008 Games would have been amazing for Toronto and the completed list of projects absolutely breathtaking:
The entire length of the Gardiner Expressway replaced with a new Great Street,
Link to the Airport completed,
Union Station renovated and expanded,
100,000 seat stadium that easily could have become the new home of the Toronto Bills,
New Aquatics Centre and indoor water park across from the Olympic Stadium,
Portlands channel converted into a spectacular rowing course,
New International Broadcast Centre, later to be converted into the Film Studios,
Renovated 20,000 Lamport Stadium that could have been home to the Toronto FC,
Cherry Street GO Station and 3 LRT lines to the Portlands completed,
New urban neighbourhood in the Portlands for 15,000 Athletes,
West Don Lands would have been a completed new neighbourhood for 10,000 of the world's media,
24+ new sporting facilities throughout the GTA.
The biggest surprise announcement came in Toronto's final presentation in Moscow. They presented plans for Toronto's very own Frank Ghery to design and build a new World Youth Centre at the foot of Yonge Street (Pier 27 now). It would have been Toronto's calling card to the world as a new iconic structure on the waterfront.
Most importantly of all, Toronto and its citizens would have gained a whole a new level of Civic Pride and Confidence about itself.
2008 Olympic Bid Legacy
Back in 2001, I felt and previewed that spirit, standing together with 20,000+ on Front Street as we celebrated all things Toronto in front of the world's media. The crowd went crazy when we learned that another ballot round was required as many thought Beijing could have won it in the first round. For that one moment in Toronto's history it felt and looked like an Olympic City.
Bidding for the 2008 Games was not a total failure. If anything it was the smartest move Toronto has ever made. We were successful in forcing the two senior levels of government to hand over $1 billion for our waterfront + $500 million dedication from the city's budget for a total of $1.5 billion.
Waterfront Toronto was actually created and launched during the bid to prepare the city for the 2008 Games. While we lost the firm deadline to complete the projects, I think we can all agree that it has made real steady progress and we are finally off to a good start in revitalizing our waterfront.
Future Olympic Bids
Toronto would likely have been the frontrunner for the 2012 Games, if Vancouver had not been allowed to bid and win the 2010 Winter Games. Basically, in my opinion the Canadian Olympic Committee gave away Toronto’s chance of hosting the Olympics in the medium term by allowing Vancouver to bid.
Toronto could also have been the frontrunner to beat for 2016. Yet it is our rival and sister city Chicago that is now the frontrunner in that race and has based its plans on Toronto’s waterfront Games model. If Chicago wins, there is no chance of Toronto winning for at least another decade and half.
Toronto’s best bet is to continue work on the building a great waterfront that the world would love to visit and by renovating and building new sporting infrastructure. We have opened some new facilities over the years including the Rexall Tennis Centre at York University, BMO Field and Ricoh Coliseum at Exhibition Place.
Finally, our best shot of hosting a major sporting event that would spark significant investment in the city is with the 2015 Pan American Games. While regional in scope, it would give us those badly needed firm deadlines to complete projects, and raise Toronto’s profile and experience in hosting large events.
Louroz
1996 Olympic Bid
How Toronto lost the 1996 Olympics to a city like Atlanta is beyond me.
We were considered the frontrunners with the best technical bid once again in that race, especially since the whole world was ranting and raving about the opening of the Skydome. Yet years later we found out that Toronto didn't want to play the bride game.
Adding to Toronto's troubles were the "Bread not Circuses" who argued all about affordable housing. Istead of something as a result of a successful bid, we got nothing in the end.
The 1996 Games would have transformed what is now City Place into a huge mid-low rise Athletes Village into a sort of a St. Lawrence West. Bremner - Fort York Blvd would have been a new ceremonial blvd that connected downtown with the new Olympic Park at Exhibition Place/Ontario Place.
2008 Olympic Bid
2008 had a different set of rules, again we clearly had the best technical bid out of anyone. That fact that we scored higher and gained more votes than the Paris speaks volumes.
China was always going to be hard to beat, but it wasn't a sure slam dunk for them. Toronto was always the main competition. If Paris was taken off the ballot and we had to go another round of votes, who knows what the final tally would have been. Sydney beat Beijing by 2 votes for the 2000 Games.
As for the Lastman remarks, it clearly did not help our bid at the very crucial end of the process. It distracted the IOC members and if anything gave them an excuse to give the 2008 Olympics to Beijing.
The 2008 Games would have been amazing for Toronto and the completed list of projects absolutely breathtaking:
The entire length of the Gardiner Expressway replaced with a new Great Street,
Link to the Airport completed,
Union Station renovated and expanded,
100,000 seat stadium that easily could have become the new home of the Toronto Bills,
New Aquatics Centre and indoor water park across from the Olympic Stadium,
Portlands channel converted into a spectacular rowing course,
New International Broadcast Centre, later to be converted into the Film Studios,
Renovated 20,000 Lamport Stadium that could have been home to the Toronto FC,
Cherry Street GO Station and 3 LRT lines to the Portlands completed,
New urban neighbourhood in the Portlands for 15,000 Athletes,
West Don Lands would have been a completed new neighbourhood for 10,000 of the world's media,
24+ new sporting facilities throughout the GTA.
The biggest surprise announcement came in Toronto's final presentation in Moscow. They presented plans for Toronto's very own Frank Ghery to design and build a new World Youth Centre at the foot of Yonge Street (Pier 27 now). It would have been Toronto's calling card to the world as a new iconic structure on the waterfront.
Most importantly of all, Toronto and its citizens would have gained a whole a new level of Civic Pride and Confidence about itself.
2008 Olympic Bid Legacy
Back in 2001, I felt and previewed that spirit, standing together with 20,000+ on Front Street as we celebrated all things Toronto in front of the world's media. The crowd went crazy when we learned that another ballot round was required as many thought Beijing could have won it in the first round. For that one moment in Toronto's history it felt and looked like an Olympic City.
Bidding for the 2008 Games was not a total failure. If anything it was the smartest move Toronto has ever made. We were successful in forcing the two senior levels of government to hand over $1 billion for our waterfront + $500 million dedication from the city's budget for a total of $1.5 billion.
Waterfront Toronto was actually created and launched during the bid to prepare the city for the 2008 Games. While we lost the firm deadline to complete the projects, I think we can all agree that it has made real steady progress and we are finally off to a good start in revitalizing our waterfront.
Future Olympic Bids
Toronto would likely have been the frontrunner for the 2012 Games, if Vancouver had not been allowed to bid and win the 2010 Winter Games. Basically, in my opinion the Canadian Olympic Committee gave away Toronto’s chance of hosting the Olympics in the medium term by allowing Vancouver to bid.
Toronto could also have been the frontrunner to beat for 2016. Yet it is our rival and sister city Chicago that is now the frontrunner in that race and has based its plans on Toronto’s waterfront Games model. If Chicago wins, there is no chance of Toronto winning for at least another decade and half.
Toronto’s best bet is to continue work on the building a great waterfront that the world would love to visit and by renovating and building new sporting infrastructure. We have opened some new facilities over the years including the Rexall Tennis Centre at York University, BMO Field and Ricoh Coliseum at Exhibition Place.
Finally, our best shot of hosting a major sporting event that would spark significant investment in the city is with the 2015 Pan American Games. While regional in scope, it would give us those badly needed firm deadlines to complete projects, and raise Toronto’s profile and experience in hosting large events.
Louroz
ganjavih
Senior Member
I don't know about the phrase, "a city that might have been". Sure, the Olympics would have sped up developments such as the waterfront, but I don't think the fundamental feel of the city would have been much different.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Louroz:
Just some technical corrections - while there are plans to beautify Laksshore (or was it Queens Quay?), the Gardiner was supposed to stay up; there was never any concrete plan to renovate and expand Union Station proper - just twinning the platforms at Union subway stop; the Olympic stadium was meant to seat 60-80,000 (though 100K has also been throw around as a figure), and downsized back to 20,000 at the end of the games.
AoD
Just some technical corrections - while there are plans to beautify Laksshore (or was it Queens Quay?), the Gardiner was supposed to stay up; there was never any concrete plan to renovate and expand Union Station proper - just twinning the platforms at Union subway stop; the Olympic stadium was meant to seat 60-80,000 (though 100K has also been throw around as a figure), and downsized back to 20,000 at the end of the games.
AoD
TonyV
Senior Member
I was wondering where all the "if we had landed the '08 olympics" articles were. Finally they're showing up.
Rest assured that TLS still wouldn't have been ready on time.
Rest assured that TLS still wouldn't have been ready on time.
FutureMayor
Active Member
Toronto Olympic Bid Book
My material hard facts says otherwise.
I own a completed set of one of the 200 official detailed bid books printed that were presented to each IOC member.
The three volume, 600 page set breaks down every aspect of the planning, staging and budgeting for a Toronto 2008 Olympic Games.
I can confirm that the take down of the Gardiner Expressway was indeed part of the related Olympic budget, under the catergory of "Olympic Waterfront Infrustructure Plan". The bid budget included everything from the cost of the Airport Expansion and even the Sheppard Subway Line.
As for Union Station, it goes on to describe GO Transit's expansion plans and ridership projections, which included the building of a new West Concourse to meet the future system demands and the Olympics.
The most exciting new piece of downtown transit infrustructure for me was the building and introduction of an "Olympic Rings Shuttle" with frequent dedicated trains running between Exhibition Place, Union Station and a new Cherry Street GO Station to ferry spectators between the three main competition zones.
As for the Olympic Stadium, the book presents stadium plans for 100,000 seats, along with the related expected revenues from those seats in the bid budget.
I've just discovered under one section, they even had a written guarantee from PCL Construction Canada Inc to build the new Olympic Stadium for maximum price not exceeding $722,200,000(CDN).
They even went one step further and presented a 100% performance bond that had been obtained from the Zurich Insurance Company to cover that price contract obligation.
Even more amazing was a written agreement with the GTA building and trade unions with "no strike or no lock-out" guarantee between the period of September 1, 2001 to December 31, 2008.
I'm only speculating, however I strongly believe a deal would have been struck with Toronto investors to keep the stadium capacity after the Games to act as the new home for an NFL Team.
The 2008 Olympics Plan was both a bold and financially solid plan that would have transformed the face of this city at a much faster rate than we are doing now.
Sure it would have cost taxpayers billions no doubt about it. However that money would need to be spent regardless of the Olympics. I believe we can all agree with a firm 2008 deadline - that greater sense of need and urgency pushing our political leaders at every level, could only be to the greater benefit of all living in this city-region.
Louroz
My material hard facts says otherwise.
I own a completed set of one of the 200 official detailed bid books printed that were presented to each IOC member.
The three volume, 600 page set breaks down every aspect of the planning, staging and budgeting for a Toronto 2008 Olympic Games.
I can confirm that the take down of the Gardiner Expressway was indeed part of the related Olympic budget, under the catergory of "Olympic Waterfront Infrustructure Plan". The bid budget included everything from the cost of the Airport Expansion and even the Sheppard Subway Line.
As for Union Station, it goes on to describe GO Transit's expansion plans and ridership projections, which included the building of a new West Concourse to meet the future system demands and the Olympics.
The most exciting new piece of downtown transit infrustructure for me was the building and introduction of an "Olympic Rings Shuttle" with frequent dedicated trains running between Exhibition Place, Union Station and a new Cherry Street GO Station to ferry spectators between the three main competition zones.
As for the Olympic Stadium, the book presents stadium plans for 100,000 seats, along with the related expected revenues from those seats in the bid budget.
I've just discovered under one section, they even had a written guarantee from PCL Construction Canada Inc to build the new Olympic Stadium for maximum price not exceeding $722,200,000(CDN).
They even went one step further and presented a 100% performance bond that had been obtained from the Zurich Insurance Company to cover that price contract obligation.
Even more amazing was a written agreement with the GTA building and trade unions with "no strike or no lock-out" guarantee between the period of September 1, 2001 to December 31, 2008.
I'm only speculating, however I strongly believe a deal would have been struck with Toronto investors to keep the stadium capacity after the Games to act as the new home for an NFL Team.
The 2008 Olympics Plan was both a bold and financially solid plan that would have transformed the face of this city at a much faster rate than we are doing now.
Sure it would have cost taxpayers billions no doubt about it. However that money would need to be spent regardless of the Olympics. I believe we can all agree with a firm 2008 deadline - that greater sense of need and urgency pushing our political leaders at every level, could only be to the greater benefit of all living in this city-region.
Louroz
highlife
New Member
i have to agree the Olympics would have been a boon for Toronto and especially for its waterfront. It would have been a catalyst to spur even more development. Even with all the Olympic baggage of corruption, cost overruns, crass commercialism, etc. the rewards simply outweigh the risks. I refer to recent positive examples such as Calgary, Barcelona, and Sydney.
We should have won 1996 but there was no chance in Hell we would have won 2008. At the time, the IOC was probably salivating at the opportunity to put China on a pedestal and to be credited for the re-emergence, the coming out party, for China overall. Judging by the significance that China represents economically to the world, it seems they made the right choice. And the IOC can rely on China to go all out (with all its Communist might) in pulling a spectacular showcase by temporarily hiding current problems (i.e. pollution).
I think Toronto had its chance and it should now move on. After London and potentially Chicago or Paris hosting in the future, the IOC will turn towards Africa or even the Middle East as future host cities. And who knows? by then the Olympics may implode and become irrelevant like those Expo/World Fairs/PanAms, etc....
We should have won 1996 but there was no chance in Hell we would have won 2008. At the time, the IOC was probably salivating at the opportunity to put China on a pedestal and to be credited for the re-emergence, the coming out party, for China overall. Judging by the significance that China represents economically to the world, it seems they made the right choice. And the IOC can rely on China to go all out (with all its Communist might) in pulling a spectacular showcase by temporarily hiding current problems (i.e. pollution).
I think Toronto had its chance and it should now move on. After London and potentially Chicago or Paris hosting in the future, the IOC will turn towards Africa or even the Middle East as future host cities. And who knows? by then the Olympics may implode and become irrelevant like those Expo/World Fairs/PanAms, etc....