Toronto Pinnacle One Yonge | 345.5m | 105s | Pinnacle | Hariri Pontarini

According to our zoning, half of downtown itself is zoned as residential... which means no retail allowed?

The last thing we need is "respect the zoning", which essentially says no building taller than 6 stories outside the financial district. :p

That 6s might not be such a bad thing if we aren't stuck with the whole mills and village mentality of ideal urban form.

AoD
 
I have a long-standing gripe with the way Toronto planners introduce development proposals at community consultations. Part of their spiel is to lay out what's allowed by the current zoning on the site in comparison with what the developer is asking for. What they omit is that in 90% of the cases, the zoning is obsolete and indefensible at the OMB (should it come to an appeal). That lack of forthcomingness leads to newcomers to these consultations ending up with unrealistic expectations, while demonizing the developers for asking for something that's actually closer to being realistic. It makes everything unnecessarily adversarial.

It's totally cray.

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Exactly. Literally every consultation for a development that significantly exceeds current zoning includes the moment when the planner gets to the slide in the deck where he or she compares what is zoned to what is being requested and there's a chorus of audible gasps/laughter. It sets the whole thing off on the wrong foot and fundamentally alters the way in which a development is presented.

It ultimately runs counter to the planner's ostensible mission to create a better, more livable city.
 
"How dare the developer come into our neighbourhood and propose a height that is more than 4 times what was determined to be appropriate for these lands when they drafted the zoning by-law! How can the developer just ignore the zoning by-law?!?!"

Even worse - it's usually something more along the lines of "how dare these money-hungry developers come in and ruin our city and my neighbourhood - they're pond scum." And our councillors play right into their hands.

Someone in Planning needs to recognize that the process is broken and that there are ways they can actively amend the process to make it more constructive.

I also think developers/architects can do a better job of visually representing what they have now vs. what they stand to gain through redevelopment in their presentations at consultations, especially in the larger-scale developments where there are significant community benefits.
 
Now just imagine this same scenario but without the OMB...

True, except they look at it on a project by project basis - and help perpetuate the incoherence and basically serves as an incentive not to update ZBL (OMB did it; no need to have a conversation about us making the tough decisions).

Someone in Planning needs to recognize that the process is broken and that there are ways they can actively amend the process to make it more constructive.

More like someone in council need to grow a set and have a conversation about the decisions that need to be made - instead of playing games and letting OMB make the decisions.

AoD
 
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More like someone in council need to grow a set and have a conversation about the decisions that need to be made - instead of playing games and letting OMB make the decisions.

I mean, I of course agree, but I'm thinking about the realm of the possible here. I have infinity times more faith in city planners to be smart and adaptable than I do in Council.
 
I know this is a landmark site for any development, but is the density on this project too high? After a couple of the towers were cancelled, additional height was given to the towers. Maybe Pinnacle wanted the same amount (of units)?

If you throw 6s around downtown (with the exception of the Financial District), how would it be? With a decreasing land supply, you cannot just build 6s buildings. Should that be the case, new buildings would have to be located outside the area where the height restriction is in effect (e. g. Financial District if there is land, since the restriction is not in effect there). Otherwise, they may eventually have to increase the height limit or even repeal the restriction.

Developers can't just, however, ignore any height restrictions and propose 300m all they want. Instead, their proposal should be agreed upon by both the City or OMB and the developer.

I have a feeling whoever approves/rejects the development may also look deeper into the architecture, and in this case, Urban Toronto has been pretty contemptuous of the 65s tower, so if the same response is also present for the other towers, it may be cancelled or redesigned. I highly doubt the scale would be changed if a redesign is coming.
 
I know this is a landmark site for any development, but is the density on this project too high? After a couple of the towers were cancelled, additional height was given to the towers. Maybe Pinnacle wanted the same amount (of units)?

If you throw 6s around downtown (with the exception of the Financial District), how would it be? With a decreasing land supply, you cannot just build 6s buildings. Should that be the case, new buildings would have to be located outside the area where the height restriction is in effect (e. g. Financial District if there is land, since the restriction is not in effect there). Otherwise, they may eventually have to increase the height limit or even repeal the restriction.

Developers can't just, however, ignore any height restrictions and propose 300m all they want. Instead, their proposal should be agreed upon by both the City or OMB and the developer.

I have a feeling whoever approves/rejects the development may also look deeper into the architecture, and in this case, Urban Toronto has been pretty contemptuous of the 65s tower, so if the same response is also present for the other towers, it may be cancelled or redesigned. I highly doubt the scale would be changed if a redesign is coming.

The city and the developer have been consulting extensively together on this project.
 
I see a lot of discussion about the project that are not related to the status of the project.
So please , could someone tell if this is finally approved ?
I have been waiting many month to see a final approval of 1 Yonge.
It's one of my favorite project in Toronto and i am worried it will never be done.
Thank you for your understanding.
:)
 
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I see a lot of discussion about the project that are not related to the status of the project.
So please , could someone tell if this is finally approved ?
I have been waiting many month to see a final approval of 1 Yonge.
It's one of my favorite project in Toronto and i am worried it will never be done.
Thank you for your understanding.
:)
If you read the posting immediately above you would see "The city and the developer have been consulting extensively together on this project." This is how projects get refined and (ideally!) improved and this huge one is in the final (?) stages of that process. The final report on the Lower Yonge EA is going to Council in June or July and this development is in that area.
 
Thank you very much DSC for your answer and comprehension.
I hope it will be done by June or July.It's time this project progress f and
transform positively the downtown.
:)
 
I know this is a landmark site for any development, but is the density on this project too high? After a couple of the towers were cancelled, additional height was given to the towers. Maybe Pinnacle wanted the same amount (of units)?

Pinnacle initially asked for 4,137 condo units, 675 hotel suites, and 238,846 sq metres of commercial. Lot coverage would have been 22.01 times.
Pinnacle will be approved for 2,634 condos, 224 affordable rental suites, 114 hotel suites, 152,432 sq m of commercial. Lot coverage is 14.31 times.

That's a huge drop from their original submission; what's approved will be about 2/3 the size. Is it still too much? The City doesn't think so, or it wouldn't be getting approved.

Developers can't just, however, ignore any height restrictions and propose 300m all they want. Instead, their proposal should be agreed upon by both the City or OMB and the developer..

Any developer can propose anything they want, but what they get is either approved of by the City or by the OMB. For the proposals which get appealed to the OMB, increasingly now, the City continues to negotiate so that the OMB hearing becomes one of ratification of the settlement the City has come to with the developer. That's what's happening in this case.

In some cases, even with continued negotiations, the City and developer do not settle, so the OMB hearing remains a full hearing in which the OMB decides.

I have a feeling whoever approves/rejects the development may also look deeper into the architecture, and in this case, Urban Toronto has been pretty contemptuous of the 65s tower, so if the same response is also present for the other towers, it may be cancelled or redesigned. I highly doubt the scale would be changed if a redesign is coming.

There's no single "whoever" that decides. There are many people from several departments who look at many aspects of the plans, including the public through a consultation, and also the Design Review Panel. The Planning Department collates the analysis. If they see issues, (they do 99% of the time), then they discuss those with the developer. If the developer is receptive to changes, they make them. Developers are typically willing to make changes, but if they find that they cannot make all the changes the City is demanding, or if the process is dragging on too long, then they can appeal to the OMB for a hearing.

A recent statistic quoted in a local paper claimed that developers win 64% of the hearings that go to the OMB, and the City wins the other 36% of them (but I'd like to see more details of that rather simplistic summation).

While the provincial government has given cities 120 days to respond to zoning by-law amendment (ZBA) requests and 180 for official plan amendments (OPA), after which the developer can appeal to the OMB if there is no decision, some developers are happy to negotiate with the City long after those times have passed. Developers that stick it out to the end with the City have their ZBA and OPA requests voted on by Council. If they get approval, there's no cancelling or redesigning based on how positively or negatively people like us respond to the plans. The developers still have to submit for Site Plan Approval from the Planning Department, and that's where the finer details of the design are gone over, like where trees and planters will be located around the building, where the garage access will be, what types of cladding will be used - - - all of which has to fit into the heights and massing that was approved at the ZBA/OPA stage. If they want more changes the the ZBA, they can go to the Committee of Adjustment for minor ones, or have to start the process over for larger ones.

So, that's me over-simplifying the process, but essentially I'm trying to tell you that there are well-worn procedures that follow regulations, and that everything gets considered on the way to City Council or OMB approval. What developers put up is restricted to what the approvals allow, and scale doesn't just change because someone feels like changing it.

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Here is David Pontarini speaking recently at CTBUH. The video includes case studies for One Bloor, The Well, and 1 Yonge which are all very interesting (1 Yonge segment is at the latter half of the video). There are a few new renderings included in the presentation that I had not seen before (including massing models and various prototypes). I screengrabbed one of them:

33907462051_1337cf0dbd_b.jpg


Full video/source here:
 

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