SRT to be shut down for refurbishment (2015)

[rbt]

The Ontario government certainly can't, and the days of the federal government directly telling the Bank of Canada where to set interest rates are long gone.

They still have more information on the matter than PCL, Bombardier, or SNC-Lavalin could gather.

 

[rbt]

It'll also be interesting to compare the per km cost of the downtown tunnel vs the per km cost of the Eglinton tunnel. Same technology, slightly longer platform length for Ottawa (120m vs 90m I believe), but more or less a pretty decent comparison. If it comes in around the same figure, we'll know Toronto is in the same ballpark. If it comes in significantly lower, we'll know Toronto is getting hosed.

If Ottawa isn't cheaper than Toronto then they're getting hosed. They generally have better ground conditions for tunnelling, less traffic congestion to contend with for soil disposal, and closer sources of cement components.

 

[gweed123]

If Ottawa isn't cheaper than Toronto then they're getting hosed. They generally have better ground conditions for tunnelling and less traffic congestion to contend with for soil disposal.

But Ottawa is also tunnelling through the heart of it's downtown, so you'd naturally expect a bit higher cost just on that nature.

 

[rbt]

But Ottawa is also tunnelling through the heart of it's downtown, so you'd naturally expect a bit higher cost just on that nature.

Probably not for the tunnelling itself. The portals where the activity will occur are pretty reasonably well placed. Is special foundation strengthening work for pre-existing buildings in the tunnelling contract?

Station construction certainly will have difficulties associated with being downtown.

The rocky conditions in Ottawa should allow them to tunnel at nearly twice the pace that the machines are capable of in Toronto's muck. That's a huge advantage.


The extra 4 portals and cut/cover segments on Eglinton around the YUS subway lines aren't helpful either.

Simply put, I believe Ottawa should be cheaper. If it isn't cheaper than Eglinton's contract (adjusting for length, etc.) then I think Ottawa should take a second look at their plans.

 

[gweed123]

Probably not for the tunnelling itself. The portals where the activity will occur are pretty reasonably well placed. Is special foundation strengthening work for pre-existing buildings in the tunnelling contract?

Station construction certainly will have difficulties associated with being downtown.

The rocky conditions in Ottawa should allow them to tunnel at nearly twice the pace that the machines are capable of in Toronto's muck. That's a huge advantage.


The extra 4 portals and cut/cover segments on Eglinton around the YUS subway lines aren't helpful either.

Simply put, I believe Ottawa should be cheaper. If it isn't cheaper than Eglinton's contract (adjusting for length, etc.) then I think Ottawa should take a second look at their plans.

Good points. I think Ottawa's cost should come in slightly lower per km than Eglinton, but it shouldn't be substantially less or more expensive. That's just the point I was trying to make, that the two should be in the same ballpark.

 

[nfitz]

It'll also be interesting to compare the per km cost of the downtown tunnel vs the per km cost of the Eglinton tunnel. Same technology, slightly longer platform length for Ottawa (120m vs 90m I believe), but more or less a pretty decent comparison.

It's always tough for the pundits to break out the costs. The first tunnel contract for Eglinton was $320 million for the 6.2 km tunnel from the portal to somewhere west of Yonge. So that's $51.7 million/km. The problem with doing comparisons though, is that the Ottawa contract will likely be tendered in a bigger piece, and we won't know what the tunnelling portion is, per se.

 

[JayBeeGooner]

If I recall correctly, the Ottawa tunnel alignment has been revised because the original alignment was more expensive than originally thought?

 

[gweed123]

It's always tough for the pundits to break out the costs. The first tunnel contract for Eglinton was $320 million for the 6.2 km tunnel from the portal to somewhere west of Yonge. So that's $51.7 million/km. The problem with doing comparisons though, is that the Ottawa contract will likely be tendered in a bigger piece, and we won't know what the tunnelling portion is, per se.

We'll see if they publicize the cost breakdown, or if they just announce the final tab.

If I recall correctly, the Ottawa tunnel alignment has been revised because the original alignment was more expensive than originally thought?

Yes it was. They were originally going to do a deep tunnel that cut diagonally across downtown. The alignment is now a shallower tunnel under Queen Street.

 

[rbt]

I think Ottawa's cost should come in slightly lower per km than Eglinton, but it shouldn't be substantially less or more expensive. That's just the point I was trying to make, that the two should be in the same ballpark.

Agreed. They should be within 20% of the cost of eachother.

 

[gweed123]

Agreed. They should be within 20% of the cost of eachother.

Yup. I read today that the contract will be awarded (or at least publicized) on December 5th. So we won't have to wait very long!

 

[smallspy]

One of the benefits of PPP is that you don't get this "escalated" costs crap.

Again, except for the $140 mil of escalation paid for the Canada Line after the "fixed costs" contract was signed.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.