Should the 3 year degree be phased out?

[King of Kensington]

The 3-year BA is a remnant of when we had grade 13. It was apparently supposed to go with the change but never did. However virtually all students seem to be getting 4-year degrees, and U of T did abolish them.

 

[prosperegal]

The 3-year BA is a remnant of when we had grade 13. It was apparently supposed to go with the change but never did. However virtually all students seem to be getting 4-year degrees, and U of T did abolish them.

No one I know took a three year degree - not even when OAC existed. When I matriculated to Queen's in '98, it was assumed that we'd all do four years. We were presented as the "Class of 2002." My peers at other schools were as well. So yes, I agree that it needs to go.

 

[King of Kensington]

No one I know took a three year degree - not even when OAC existed. When I matriculated to Queen's in '98, it was assumed that we'd all do four years. We were presented as the "Class of 2002." My peers at other schools were as well. So yes, I agree that it needs to go.

Yeah, I hardly know anybody who has a three year degree either. I suspect at Queen's in particular few then or now would be interested in it.

One exception I can see: given that teachers' college has been expanded to 2 years, I think it's possible and reasonable for concurrent programs to be 5 years in length.

Law schools I know "allow" those with three years of university and general degrees to apply, but given the competition the vast majority have four year degrees (at uber-competitive U of T something like 20% have a graduate degree!) So you have the occasional three year degree holder or even one who hasn't finished their BA in a law school class, but they're rare. In other words abolishing 3 year degrees would have virtually no impact on law schools.

 

[King of Kensington]

At one time, the three year degree was pretty common. U of T did major reforms to its curriculum in the late 1960s. Before then, there was the 4-year honours and 3-year general stream, where students actually had different classes entirely. That old honours program was highly regarded academically but eventually abolished because it was seen as too elitist. And many smart students did the 3 year program because they could take a greater variety of subjects, while the honours program required a very high level of specialization.

 

[Skeezix]

I agree with everything that has been said.

My only reluctance is the fact that university tuition in Ontario continues to rise above the rate of inflation and, IIRC, is the highest of any province in Canada. There are people for whom the cost of a 3-year programme is more realistic than a 4-year programme, particularly those who wish to couple their degree with a community college diploma or some professional accreditation. I don't know that keeping the 3-year degree meaningfully helps with accessibility to post-secondary education, but I would certainly want that issue looked at extensively if there is ever a plan to do away with 3-year degrees entirely at all schools.

 

[christiesplits]

I had a friend who did a three year B.A. + a 1 year post-graduate program with co-op at a a community college. It made her far more marketable for employers with experience in hand.

I would suggest the same to others unless they wanted to continue into graduate studies or a professional program.

 

[King of Kensington]

I agree with everything that has been said.

My only reluctance is the fact that university tuition in Ontario continues to rise above the rate of inflation and, IIRC, is the highest of any province in Canada. There are people for whom the cost of a 3-year programme is more realistic than a 4-year programme, particularly those who wish to couple their degree with a community college diploma or some professional accreditation. I don't know that keeping the 3-year degree meaningfully helps with accessibility to post-secondary education, but I would certainly want that issue looked at extensively if there is ever a plan to do away with 3-year degrees entirely at all schools.

Good point, but 4 year high school + 3 year university exists in only one jurisdiction in North America: Ontario. Few seem to be taking "advantage" of this though. At the university where I work I'd say 85% are doing "honours" rather than ordinary degrees, though I don't have hard data on this.

But yes, certainly the cost of university should definitely be taken into account in making such a decision.

 

[Skeezix]

You might be right. But the world is changing. Costs are escalating, and the province is working to make it easier to move back and forth between colleges and universities. Depending on one's education path, the three-year degree might offer some necessary flexibility.

 

[King of Kensington]

One notable development is the Bachelor of Applied Arts offered at colleges now. But I wonder if this degree is a hindrance to students who decide to do a professional school or graduate degree later on.

Another is partnerships between colleges and universities, such as Humber/Guelph and Seneca/York.

 

[King of Kensington]

You might be right. But the world is changing. Costs are escalating, and the province is working to make it easier to move back and forth between colleges and universities. Depending on one's education path, the three-year degree might offer some necessary flexibility.

Should note that this is happening in other provinces too.

 

[Skeezix]

What is?

 

[King of Kensington]

People doing university degrees and college.

 

[wild goose chase]

People doing university degrees and college.

Is this particularly seen as an Ontario thing? The people I know who have both a university and a college degrees (in either order) are Ontarians, not people from other provinces or from the US (though there, I think they call college an associate's degree) but that might not be a representative sample because I've talked more with Ontarians.

University students finding out that their degree isn't as practical for getting a job right after graduating, and then deciding to do college after seems to be a bit more common now, among Torontonians, but I have little knowledge of if the same situation arises in other cities. In theory, whatever trends are happening in TO should be happening at least in other major cities, if not across North America right?

 

[King of Kensington]

Is this particularly seen as an Ontario thing? The few people I know who have both a university and a college degrees (in either order) are Ontarians, not people from other provinces or from the US (though there, I think they call college an associate's degree) but that might not be a representative sample because I've talked more with Ontarians.

University students finding out that their degree isn't as practical for getting a job right after graduating, and then deciding to do college after seems to be a bit more common now, among Torontonians, but I have little knowledge of if the same situation arises in other cities. In theory, whatever trends are happening in TO should be happening at least in other major cities, if not across North America right?

Yes, the associate's degree is equivalent to college diplomas in Canada. In addition, the associate's degree is also granted for 2 years of academic classes which can transfer over to 4-year institutions.

Given the job market for university grads in non-vocational subjects who don't plan to go on to graduate school or professional school is tough (and a majority do not go on), I'd be surprised if university + vocational training after is only an Ontario thing.

 

[King of Kensington]

Interestingly, something like 20% of Canadians have a college diploma as their highest educational attainment, while only 10% in the US do. In the US, a lot more get bachelor's degrees for vocational subjects (like hotel management).