Sam's Sign and the Yonge Street Heritage Zeitgeist

[Torontovibe]

Apparently yes; the red background and the SAM letters--hard to divorce it all from each other. (But not all the other neon discs that accompanied the store's 1990s expansion.)

The flashing neon discs are NOT being saved? That has to be wrong. That's the best part of the sign.

 

[TOareaFan]

Anyone else notice the similarity of how this sign has been handled with how the clock at Maple Leaf Gardens was?

What is the common denominator? Ryerson involved in both.....not sure how they get away with this...twice!

 

[plink]

Apparently yes; the red background and the SAM letters--hard to divorce it all from each other. (But not all the other neon discs that accompanied the store's 1990s expansion.)

The flashing neon discs are NOT being saved? That has to be wrong. That's the best part of the sign.

This article has a short description of what has been saved.

"Grose said everything but the neon tubes, wires and light bulbs were discarded when the Sam building was demolished."

(The article also describes where the sign is presently being kept and how)

 

[themarc]

Anyone else notice the similarity of how this sign has been handled with how the clock at Maple Leaf Gardens was?

What is the common denominator? Ryerson involved in both.....not sure how they get away with this...twice!

It would be interesting if both of the above mentioned units, or replicas of these units, could be accommodated in close proximity to each other in Dundas Square. Maybe the old time clock could be used to transmit the various scores of Toronto based sports teams while they are playing... or make it multi-functional (digital) to relay all the scores of Toronto sports teams - current and previous days...

 

[TOareaFan]

It would be interesting if both of the above mentioned units, or replicas of these units, could be accommodated in close proximity to each other in Dundas Square. Maybe the old time clock could be used to transmit the various scores of Toronto based sports teams while they are playing... or make it multi-functional (digital) to relay all the scores of Toronto sports teams - current and previous days...

The clock is gone.....was somehow damaged beyond repair during the project works and they had to change their plans to put it back up in the new project......then part of it was supposed to appear at the Hockey Hall of Fame...which has not (to my knowledge) happened yet (likely never will).

What is remarkable is that even though they said they originally planned to use the old clock (for heritage preservation) and then found out they could not...there was no budget variance caused by the need to purchase a new clock. The skeptic in me suspects/suggests that they never intended to use the old clock and all that talk was just a smoke screen.

Similarly, you don't have to look too far now for media leeks/suggestions/rumours that the Sam's sign has been "damaged".....the pattern repeats (IMO).

 

[themarc]

The clock is gone.....was somehow damaged beyond repair during the project works and they had to change their plans to put it back up in the new project......then part of it was supposed to appear at the Hockey Hall of Fame...which has not (to my knowledge) happened yet (likely never will).

What is remarkable is that even though they said they originally planned to use the old clock (for heritage preservation) and then found out they could not...there was no budget variance caused by the need to purchase a new clock. The skeptic in me suspects/suggests that they never intended to use the old clock and all that talk was just a smoke screen.

Similarly, you don't have to look too far now for media leeks/suggestions/rumours that the Sam's sign has been "damaged".....the pattern repeats (IMO).

Then building a mono-chrome digital version would be pretty cheap I'd think - even if it was just a 2 sided facsimile of the original score clock - and I'm talking the one from the 70's - not that brutal "Lite-brite" board from the late 80's that replaced it...

http://www.litebriteonline.com/images/mrpot.gif

 

[TOareaFan]

Then building a mono-chrome digital version would be pretty cheap I'd think - even if it was just a 2 sided facsimile of the original score clock - and I'm talking the one from the 70's - not that brutal "Lite-brite" board from the late 80's that replaced it...

http://www.litebriteonline.com/images/mrpot.gif

The idea was to preserve the actual history....not create a fake remake.

 

[One Nut Kruk]

The flashing neon discs are NOT being saved? That has to be wrong. That's the best part of the sign.

The smaller ones, he meant; which were put up in the 90s.

Anyone else notice the similarity of how this sign has been handled with how the clock at Maple Leaf Gardens was?

What is the common denominator? Ryerson involved in both.....not sure how they get away with this...twice!

The Maple Leaf Gardens clock wasn't an original piece. It replaced the previous clock in the late 70s, early 80s? This isn't a fair comparison.

 

[TOareaFan]

The smaller ones, he meant; which were put up in the 90s.



The Maple Leaf Gardens clock wasn't an original piece. It replaced the previous clock in the late 70s, early 80s? This isn't a fair comparison.

it is a fair comparison in that, whether the clock was original or not, it was a pre-redevelopment promise to maintain it and re-use it.

 

[adma]

:et's also remember that if certain elements of the Sam's sign have been deemed unsalvageable, the Brothers Markle likely have the original specifications...

 

[One Nut Kruk]

it is a fair comparison in that, whether the clock was original or not, it was a pre-redevelopment promise to maintain it and re-use it.

In that sense, you're right. I meant that the clock had little or no cultural significance. There was only one Sam's sign -- the clock was an upgrade from previous ones. There was nothing really interesting about it either. Its display capabilities were atrocious -- whereas the Sam's sign was very vibrant. If anything is a case of nostalgia trumping cultural/heritage value, it would be the MLG clock.

 

[TOareaFan]

In that sense, you're right. I meant that the clock had little or no cultural significance. There was only one Sam's sign -- the clock was an upgrade from previous ones. There was nothing really interesting about it either. Its display capabilities were atrocious -- whereas the Sam's sign was very vibrant. If anything is a case of nostalgia trumping cultural/heritage value, it would be the MLG clock.

The time to make that argument about the MLG clock was pre-development. Something along the lines of "the clock is neither, the original heritage item nor a modern functional clock. For that reason we respectfully suggest that preserving it would not be appropriate."

Instead they said it would be one of the heritage elements preserved and went ahead with their plans and then lost/damaged/destroyed (depending on what story is true...we don't know).

My point, and only point, in drawing the comparison is that if you believe that past actions are a good indicator of future behaviour, it should not be surprising now that this same proponent (Ryerson) is now under the scope over this sign. I can only imagine what the outcry would look like if a private developer had done this on two consecutive projects.

 

[salsa]

City council voted this morning to have the sign reassembled on the roof of 277 Victoria Street, a city-owned building on the east side of the square, and have Ryerson University pick up the bill.

The decision means Ryerson is no longer responsible for installing the sign on the outside of the new Student Learning Centre at Yonge and Gould, the original site of the Sam the Record Man store, despite building permission being granted on the understanding the university would restore the giant neon records in situ.

Ryerson will pay the cost of installing, operating, and maintaining the sign in Yonge-Dundas Square.

The city looked at various location in Yonge-Dundas Square, including the northwest corner of Yonge and Dundas and the roof of a smaller building beside to 277 Victoria. Today's decision also directed city staff to seek funding sources for a "Toronto Music City" sign.

City council also voted to ensure that any future owner of the Victoria Street building, which is seen as a prime target for redevelopment, must take on the preservation of the sign. City staff noted that tethering the sign to the building will reduce the value of the property should it be sold at a later date.

http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/07/sam_the_record_man_sign_officially_gets_new_home/

 

[TOareaFan]

http://www.blogto.com/city/2014/07/sam_the_record_man_sign_officially_gets_new_home/
City council voted this morning to have the sign reassembled on the roof of 277 Victoria Street, a city-owned building on the east side of the square, and have Ryerson University pick up the bill.


City council also voted to ensure that any future owner of the Victoria Street building, which is seen as a prime target for redevelopment, must take on the preservation of the sign. City staff noted that tethering the sign to the building will reduce the value of the property should it be sold at a later date.

So Ryerson gets out of another promise with an unknown cost to the city of Toronto taxpayer?

 

[someMidTowner]

I'll just leave this here: http://trc.daily-beat.com/news/2016/05/torontos-iconic-record-store-sign-returning-permenantly/