Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

Napoleon said:
Some very interesting findings in the report from WF Toronto's observations:
  • 27% of vehicles made a left turn on a red light!!!
  • At the intersections where right turns are illegal, an average of 3 cars per hour made an illegal right.
  • A cyclist ran a red light on average once every 3 minutes (unclear if this is per intersection or over 8 intersections)
  • Pedestrians crossed illegally at an average of more than once per minute (again unclear if this is over 8 intersections)
  • Vehicles were observed driving on the ROW an average of once per hour. Also once per hour on the pedestrian promenade.
The first one stands out more than most. This clearly indicates a failure of design. At no other intersection in the city will one find close to 27% of vehicles turning illegally on a red light. Time to stop blaming drivers and fix that.
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Oh, turning left on a red seems to be pretty common now all over town. Toronto drivers feel free to break the law if they have had to wait too long.
 
Here's someone's morning commute. Nothing really problematic.


Someone else again, evening. A lot more trail walkers.

 
AndreaPalladio said:
Oh, turning left on a red seems to be pretty common now all over town. Toronto drivers feel free to break the law if they have had to wait too long.
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I'll dispute that. Go to Spadina avenue and count over a 20 minute period how many cars turn left on red. I assure you that 27% is not even the ballpark. 27% of vehicles disregarding a red left turn signal is not normal.
 
the lemur said:
Here's someone's morning commute. Nothing really problematic.
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I reckon that's 2.8 km in 6.75 minutes. About 25 km/hr on average, including stopping at red lights. Peaking at well over 30 km/hr in a 20 km/hr zone. So bike should be in road, not on trail.

the lemur said:
Someone else again, evening. A lot more trail walkers.
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Still averaged 22 km/hr including 2 longs stops on red.

I'm surprised how narrow the sidewalk is in places, particularly along Queen East in front of brand-new developments - here of all places I'd think it would be wider. As the population in this area increases, pedestrian/rider interactions are going to worsen.

Also the problem with the major lights is evident. All the people stood waiting to cross Queens Quay don't fit between the trail and the streetcar tracks. So where else are they going to stand?
 
Some other signs that could be added to Queens Quay:
No-Fly.jpg

no-horse-riding-sign-k-5329.gif

No-cats.png

1101060.jpg
 
nfitz said:
I reckon that's 2.8 km in 6.75 minutes. About 25 km/hr on average, including stopping at red lights. Peaking at well over 30 km/hr in a 20 km/hr zone. So bike should be in road, not on trail.

Still averaged 22 km/hr including 2 longs stops on red.

I'm surprised how narrow the sidewalk is in places, particularly along Queen East in front of brand-new developments - here of all places I'd think it would be wider. As the population in this area increases, pedestrian/rider interactions are going to worsen.

Also the problem with the major lights is evident. All the people stood waiting to cross Queens Quay don't fit between the trail and the streetcar tracks. So where else are they going to stand?
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Well, if the pedestrian lights/signals were better placed, they could go from the sidewalk on a green across the trail, the tracks and the street.

I'm not sure your focus on bike speed is relevant. If going over the posted speed on a dedicated roadway is such a problem, the cars on QQW should be on Lake Shore or the Gardiner instead. Most cyclists certainly don't reach 30, and a 22-25 average isn't something most people sustain. I did 20-25 through most of my ride this morning, peaking at 35 in an underpass but my average was still under 20.

The problem in the second video, shot at a time when there are more pedestrians around, is not the narrowness of the sidewalk - it wasn't crowded by any means. It was pedestrians wandering obliviously on to the trail, which, while it isn't exclusively for bikes, is still a multi-use trail ... not a sidewalk.

The whole point of separating bikes from cars is so cyclists don't have to achieve the same speeds they do on a dedicated bike track when they're among cars just so they can keep up/get out of the way. Doing 25 or more when the posted speed is 20 (again, it's still not clear if this is a recommendation or if it has the force of law behind it) happens because slower traffic participants are drifting onto the track - it's just as much a problem of inappropriate use as it would be if people on bikes decided to use the sidewalk there.
 
Did anyone go to the meeting tonight? I had planned to, but that Jays game won over. I was hoping that WT would cancel the meeting in light of the jays game...
 
I just walked along QQ and was surprised at how large the trees have already gotten. At this rate, they'll be forming a canopy by the end of next Summer.

Another observation: the new Queens Quay is surprisingly tolerable in cold and windy conditions. The old QQ was pretty hostile during the colder months. I don't know if it was the narrow sidewalks or the speeding cars on one side and the cold lake on the other but there was this psychological impediment to enjoying the waterfront before the redevelopment. I think that once the trees grow, it'll actually be quite pleasant to take a Fall or even Winter walk along the lake.
 
MetroMan said:
I just walked along QQ and was surprised at how large the trees have already gotten. At this rate, they'll be forming a canopy by the end of next Summer.
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It's like the whole of the waterfront redevelopment is an ad for silva cells.
 
Indeed. Silva Cells have the potential to quite literally transform our city. There's no excuse not to use them everywhere. Imagine Toronto's main streets lined with large lush trees.
 
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