Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[PinkLucy]

Difficult to quote just a section, but the reason I brought up shared spaces and intersections is because that's where the issues are. The problems aren't in the lovely, shared space concept itself

And pedestrians do have a giant white bicycle symbol right there, as seen In your photos. The more traditional striped crossing probably will work better, because people are more used to it, however.

And I agree that more signage won't solve anything. People ignore signs all the time, and too many is as much of a problem as not enough

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

removing the grass ROW

Blame Toronto Emergency services for that they seem to think that driving on a streetcar right of way is a good way to get around traffic. What happens if there is streetcar in front of them

 

[salsa]

Blame Toronto Emergency services for that they seem to think that driving on a streetcar right of way is a good way to get around traffic. What happens if there is streetcar in front of them

They probably don't have much trouble driving on small 2-lane streets without ROWs, like St George or Sherbourne.

 

[reaperexpress]

Difficult to quote just a section, but the reason I brought up shared spaces and intersections is because that's where the issues are. The problems aren't in the lovely, shared space concept itself

And pedestrians do have a giant white bicycle symbol right there, as seen In your photos. The more traditional striped crossing probably will work better, because people are more used to it, however.

Indeed, the spaces between the intersections are working beautifully, there are remarkably few pedestrians on the bicycle path or bicycles on the sidewalk, making it a stress-free experience for both groups.

The giant bicycle symbols are yet another piece of evidence that the conflict points are not "shared space", providing further reinforcement to cyclists that pedestrians should keep out of their way. Meanwhile many people think that this is not the case:

I've already witnessed numerous "militant" cyclists yelling at people to "get out of the bike lane" and giving people the finger, even in the mixing zones, where they do not have any priority.

To keep pedestrians off the bicycle path while there's an east-west bicycle green I think the asphalt needs to be extended through the conflict point. I expect people will respond more to a change in materials than to patterns in the tiles.

 

[reaperexpress]

Blame Toronto Emergency services for that they seem to think that driving on a streetcar right of way is a good way to get around traffic. What happens if there is streetcar in front of them

There are two streetcar lanes. If there is a streetcar in one lane, the emergency vehicle will go around using the other. Streetcar drivers know not to stop their vehicles side-by-side when an emergency vehicle is trying to get through.

 

[CDL.TO]

I just saw this, and it relates to discussion of shared space, other bicycle-related discussions, and an earlier post about the Dutch. There's some photos in here that look no different in terms of pedestrian/cycling shared space. In some of them, there aren't even the barriers of trees that QQ has, and the colour of the brick/path are very similar whereas QQ's bike path stands out colour-wise from the pedestrian sections. It doesn't show us how the intersections work, however

Perhaps the Dutch have just learned how to use their shared spaces, and we've just started
http://spacing.ca/vancouver/2015/03/30/cycling-lessons-learned-amsterdam-no-one-talks/

But most of those photos aren't shared spaces. There are bike lanes and there are sidewalks. Things aren't shared. The one that is called a "shared street" is one of the canal ring streets. It still has a separate sidewalk for pedestrians and the reason why things are shared is because there simply isn't enough space to separate things. Those streets have speed humps every 50 metres or less (you can see them in the photo) which forces drivers to move at a speed compatible with cyclists.

The Netherlands does have shared spaces, sure. But they're only in extreme low-traffic situations. I visited a "bike street" in Utrecht where bikes and cars share space intentionally by design (not just because there isn't enough space for bike lanes). But I also know that when they did a count that there were 25 bikes for each car that went down the street.

There's already been backlash against shared space here. There are towns which implemented "shared space" projects in their centres and have already removed them, such as Assen.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

There are two streetcar lanes. If there is a streetcar in one lane, the emergency vehicle will go around using the other. Streetcar drivers know not to stop their vehicles side-by-side when an emergency vehicle is trying to get through.

good point I just don't think it's a safe place for them to be as poel seem to not look the same way as they do around the rights of way as they do with regular roads. It makes me wonder if Eglinton will, have grass in the above ground section or will emergency vehicles want to use those too.

 

[Tuscani01]

good point I just don't think it's a safe place for them to be as poel seem to not look the same way as they do around the rights of way as they do with regular roads. It makes me wonder if Eglinton will, have grass in the above ground section or will emergency vehicles want to use those too.

Ah, what the heck!

Lets make the underground section accessible to emergency vehicles too while we're at it!

 

[W. K. Lis]

good point I just don't think it's a safe place for them to be as poel seem to not look the same way as they do around the rights of way as they do with regular roads. It makes me wonder if Eglinton will, have grass in the above ground section or will emergency vehicles want to use those too.

While the current plans call for a grassy right-of-way for Eglinton, I'm sure the Roads Department, Emergency Services, and the NIMBYs will do their utmost to make sure they go the concrete right-of-way route, as well. I'm sure that even if the facts were placed in front of them, they'll just ignore them.

 

[Tuscani01]

^ That's the first i'm hearing about grass in the ROW on Eglinton! Fantastic if true!

 

[APTA-2048]

So let's say we get grass ROWs. Does anyone really think they will actually be properly maintained?

 

[CDL.TO]

Some places are using sedum rather than grass. I think it's supposed to be more hardy and drought-resistant.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

While the current plans call for a grassy right-of-way for Eglington, I'm sure the Roads Department, Emergency Services, and the NIMBYs will do their utmost to make sure they go the concrete right-of-way route, as well. I'm sure that even if the facts were placed in front of them, they'll just ignore them.

What is that image showing?

 

[W. K. Lis]

See link.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

So let's say we get grass ROWs. Does anyone really think they will actually be properly maintained?

Perhaps it will be properly maintained based on QQ being the gateway to the central waterfront