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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

Mexico is metric, like Canada. Yet they use a red circle around the speed limit number. Canada should consider going that way as well.

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Steve X said:
Super 2's are dangerous when trucks use them frequently. New Brunswick and Nova Scotia have quite a collection of them with a posted speed of 100 km/h. They seem to be fine in the quite areas but is annoying if someone is tailgating you. They are also dangerous when you're on a curve on a snowy day. I was one going around a curve just east of Gatineau on the A50 where it because a super 2. A very nice scene in the snow but trucks can easily cross over on the other side in slippery situations.
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Many of the interchanges on Super 2s in Atlantic Canada have been built with a 2nd carriageway in mind (overpass width, configuration of ramps, etc). I do agree though that they aren't as safe as RIROs or dual carriageway highways.

And yes, the A50 is pretty busy for a Super 2, at least when I've been on it (I've driven from Ottawa to Laval a few times, and it's faster to take the 50 and go down the 15 than it is to take the 40 and try to fight your way across and up). They've done a pretty good job of including a good number of passing lanes though, so if you do get stuck behind a truck it'll only be for 10km or so, or even less in the hilly parts, since almost every hill has an unbound passing lane.

Steve X said:
At grade 4 lane expressways like Highway 11 is much safer for 95% of traffic which uses the highway oppose to side roads. I think less animals crosses dual carriageways than a single one. RIRO expressways are only built along built up highways. It doesn't apply to every part of the province. MTO did a EA to convert highway 35 from the split up to Lindsay a decade back. I would like to see that happen but who knows when. Maybe 2030?

Highways need significant land to be acquired. Interchanges add to that price as they need to acquire the land over the ramps. Many super 2's are built with diamond interchanges to reduce this cost. Parclos are particularly more expensive. Also, a bridge structure cost more to maintain over time than second carriageway.
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innsertnamehere said:
I don't think 35 will be converted any time soon, there isn't much traffic growth on it. Mind you, Lindsay has been growing quite a bit recently so those numbers may be rising again. Last time I checked it had been sitting at around 6,500 AADT for around 10 years. Typically 4 laning requires over 10,000.
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I think demand on the 35/115 will drop even more once the 418 opens up and the 407E is extended to meet it. I suspect that a lot of cottage-bound traffic will use the 412/407 combo just to bypass the congestion through Whitby and Oshawa, which also means bypassing the RIRO section of the 35/115. If any section of that roadway should be upgraded, it should be the ~2km gap between where the 407 will come in and where the 400-series standard starts just after the 35/115 split. That section will almost certainly become busier after the 407E opens.
 
I never understood why they didn't plug the 407 directly into the freeway part of the 115 at Hwy 35. That way, the existing RIRO section of the 115 could simply be part of Hwy 35 only, and the 407 could extend to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough. Hwy 115 itself would vanish as a designation.

As it is, they could still declare the freeway part of the 115 to be part of the 407. Then, the two-kilometre section would be signed as 407 and 35, and the southern RIRO section could still be 35 only.
 
gweed123 said:
I think demand on the 35/115 will drop even more once the 418 opens up and the 407E is extended to meet it. I suspect that a lot of cottage-bound traffic will use the 412/407 combo just to bypass the congestion through Whitby and Oshawa, which also means bypassing the RIRO section of the 35/115. If any section of that roadway should be upgraded, it should be the ~2km gap between where the 407 will come in and where the 400-series standard starts just after the 35/115 split. That section will almost certainly become busier after the 407E opens.
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I was discussing 35 north of 115. As it stands today that highway is very hilly with heavy truck traffic and little opportunity to pass. I've had some long drives travelling 60km/h all the way up because I was stuck behind a large truck struggling up the hills and there was no opportunity to safely pass.

35 south of 115 has an AADT closer to 25,000 IIRC. its a pretty busy highway.
 
Komiksulo said:
I never understood why they didn't plug the 407 directly into the freeway part of the 115 at Hwy 35. That way, the existing RIRO section of the 115 could simply be part of Hwy 35 only, and the 407 could extend to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough. Hwy 115 itself would vanish as a designation.

As it is, they could still declare the freeway part of the 115 to be part of the 407. Then, the two-kilometre section would be signed as 407 and 35, and the southern RIRO section could still be 35 only.
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More to do with the environment. They don't want to spread urban sprawl too up north into the Greenbelt and the Oak Ridge Moraine. IMO, they can still rebuilt the section between the 407 and the 35/115 split to 400 standards.
 
Komiksulo said:
I never understood why they didn't plug the 407 directly into the freeway part of the 115 at Hwy 35. That way, the existing RIRO section of the 115 could simply be part of Hwy 35 only, and the 407 could extend to Hwy 7 east of Peterborough. Hwy 115 itself would vanish as a designation.

As it is, they could still declare the freeway part of the 115 to be part of the 407. Then, the two-kilometre section would be signed as 407 and 35, and the southern RIRO section could still be 35 only.
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Agreed. I suppose one of the issues would be having a toll highway and a "free" highway both sharing the name 407 could create some confusion. You're right though, strictly speaking it would make total sense to re-sign the 400-series section of 115 as 407.

Steve X said:
More to do with the environment. They don't want to spread urban sprawl too up north into the Greenbelt and the Oak Ridge Moraine. IMO, they can still rebuilt the section between the 407 and the 35/115 split to 400 standards.
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I don't really see how changing a highway designation from 115 to 407 changes that though. The highway is being built either way. I think the issue that Komiksulo and I have is that the current plan will have about 2km of lower standards RIRO sandwiched in between two 400-series standard highways along a pretty natural desire line.

innsertnamehere said:
I was discussing 35 north of 115. As it stands today that highway is very hilly with heavy truck traffic and little opportunity to pass. I've had some long drives travelling 60km/h all the way up because I was stuck behind a large truck struggling up the hills and there was no opportunity to safely pass.

35 south of 115 has an AADT closer to 25,000 IIRC. its a pretty busy highway.
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My mistake, I thought you meant the RIRO part and upgrading it to full 400-series standards. I haven't driven 35 north of the 115 split, so I can't speak to it one way or the other.
 
On Nov 26, I pass the expansion of the 401 at Mavis Rd and both sides are ready to have lanes pour in the spring.

Piles where being place for the 2nd line bridge
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gweed123 said:
The highway is being built either way. I think the issue that Komiksulo and I have is that the current plan will have about 2km of lower standards RIRO sandwiched in between two 400-series standard highways along a pretty natural desire line.
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I said they could rebuilt that 2km (which is between the 35/115 split and the future 407 east terminal) to 400-series standard so there wouldn't be a sandwich. It wouldn't matter too much. Many highway all over the world have small amounts of lower speed limit sections sandwiched including some of the 400 series highway since as 403 in Hamilton, 406 in St Catherine plus the 427NB at 401, 403WB at 407, 400NB at 11 and 417WB at Ottawa road 174. Things aren't going to change.
 
News Release

Tolling Set to Begin on Highway 407 and Highway 412
January 3, 2017

Ontario Investing in Transit, Building a Strong Economy
On February 1, 2017, tolling will begin on the province's new Highway 407 and Highway 412.

Highway 407, which runs eastward from Brock Rd. in Pickering to Harmony Rd. in Oshawa, and Highway 412, which connects Highway 407 and Highway 401, opened this past June. While the tolling infrastructure was being installed and calibrated, customers were able to travel free of charge.

Revenue generated from the tolls will be used to help fund new infrastructure and transit projects across the province.Toll rates for Highways 407 and 412 are lower than tolls on Highway 407 ETR. The province's rates are, on average, approximately 15 per cent lower during off-peak periods, and approximately 30 per cent lower during peak periods, as compared to Highway 407 ETR.

Motorists who drive on the privately operated Highway 407 ETR, and Ontario's Highway 407 and Highway 412 will use one transponder and receive one invoice making the tolling process straightforward and seamless.

Ontario is making the largest infrastructure investment in hospitals, schools, public transit, roads and bridges in the province's history.To learn more about what's happening in your community, go to Ontario.ca/BuildON.

Investing in infrastructure is part of Ontario's plan to create jobs, grow our economy and help people in their everyday lives.


QUICK FACTS
  • Customers will not be double-billed for transponder leases, monthly account charges, and video toll charges. These fees will be charged only once for use of Highways 407, 412, and/or 407 ETR.
  • 407 ETR will issue tolling invoices and provide customer service on behalf of the Province of Ontario for Highways 407 and 412.
  • The final construction phase on this project is underway and includes extending Highway 407 from Harmony Road to Highway 35/115, and Highway 418 connecting Highway 407 to Highway 401. This final section will be built by 2020, with an interim opening from Harmony Road to Taunton Road at Highway 418 by late 2017.
 
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