Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It's just hard to take those kind of anecdotes seriously. Compare the Gardiner crossings of Bathurst, Strachan, Dufferin which are all very walkable and pleasant, with Spadina, Simcoe, Jarvis. What do those have in common? It's Lake Shore that makes crossing a nightmare.

When people say crossing the Gardiner sucks, they are mostly likely referring to Lake Shore.

Why is the Lakeshore and the ramps configured the way it is? The Gardiner. Blaming the Lakeshore without acknowledging that fact is basically trying to move the goalposts.

All postings unrelated to York-Simcoe ramp is now in this thread.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Why is the Lakeshore and the ramps configured the way it is? The Gardiner. Blaming the Lakeshore without acknowledging that fact is basically trying to move the goalposts.

All postings unrelated to York-Simcoe ramp is now in this thread.

AoD

I got a notification this happened, cool!

 

[TransitBart]

No. The guy who prompted another person to post that graphic is doing exactly what you're taking exception to in this post; he admitted straight up that he didn't believe in being informed before spewing his drivel.

Then best we walk past and not take notice. It is a choice to reply - or not. If you see it that way, then don't feed into it.

 

[ADRM]

Then best we walk past and not take notice. It is a choice to reply - or not. If you see it that way, then don't feed into it.

Not calling out people on their BS is a great way to ensure the perpetuation of said BS.

 

[Jago88]

This may be a really, really stupid question with many reasons why this is not a possibility but...

Is there anywhere that has something like the Gardiner but they have covered it, essentially creating a raised tunnel and then put greenery on top of it?

I understand it would cost a lot but is there any other reasons it would be a bad idea? I just think of this question every time I look at it and I need to put it to bed!

 

[amnesiajune]

Is there anywhere that has something like the Gardiner but they have covered it, essentially creating a raised tunnel and then put greenery on top of it?

Hamburg is doing something like that with its version of the DVP. They're widening the freeway and building a green roof over it, similar to the city's proposed rail deck park.

 

[TOareaFan]

Maybe a waterfront city having an elevated roadway is not such a bad idea afterall?

https://twitter.com/moore_oliver/status/867818600907886592

 

[nrb]

Hamburg is doing something like that with its version of the DVP. They're widening the freeway and building a green roof over it, similar to the city's proposed rail deck park.

The section where they're doing this is at-grade, it's essentially a cut and cover project. I don't see what the point would be in covering the gardiner. Theoretically I guess it would create greenspace but with a functioning highway with so many onramps downtown it would both be very noisy and enormously expensive to maintain.

 

[darth_freeman]

Checking out Barcelona after hearing about the recent attacks, they have nice looking urban freeway running through the core adjacent to the waterfront, the B-10 motorway. It is a mix of at-grade, below grade, and tunneled sections. With depressed highways there is more opportunity for landscaping, compared to elevated like the Gardiner. Perhaps this is why many call it such an eyesore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-10_motorway_(Spain)

 

[amnesiajune]

With depressed highways there is more opportunity for landscaping, compared to elevated like the Gardiner. Perhaps this is why many call it such an eyesore.

Lima does something similar. All their freeways are sunken. One of them also has a BRT system in the median with stations at nearly every bridge, which works really well in that section because it's fully grade-separated.

I don't think the Gardiner itself is the problem though. I think the problem is Lake Shore Boulevard under it and the time that people spend waiting to cross it. Replacing it with well-lit parks and other public spaces would do a lot more good than replacing the Gardiner with a wider, higher-speed boulevard.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I don't think the Gardiner itself is the problem though. I think the problem is Lake Shore Boulevard under it and the time that people spend waiting to cross it. Replacing it with well-lit parks and other public spaces would do a lot more good than replacing the Gardiner with a wider, higher-speed boulevard.

Maybe we should do like Chicago did and put in underpasses under LakShorere Blvard so that pedestrians can get under it rather then waiting for lights.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Checking out Barcelona after hearing about the recent attacks, they have nice looking urban freeway running through the core adjacent to the waterfront, the B-10 motorway. It is a mix of at-grade, below grade, and tunneled sections. With depressed highways there is more opportunity for landscaping, compared to elevated like the Gardiner. Perhaps this is why many call it such an eyesore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-10_motorway_(Spain)

Ronda Litoral is more like Lakeshore, and I highly doubt anyone in Toronto will suffice themselves with a Gardiner replacement that is only 2 lanes each way in the core.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

Ronda Litoral is more like Lakeshore

Aside from the fact that it's a freeway, sure. But the Gardiner is also a lot like Lakeshore aside from being a freeway

I highly doubt anyone in Toronto will suffice themselves with a Gardiner replacement that is only 2 lanes each way in the core.

First of all, the Gardiner East is going to be two lanes each way.

Second, if we were in the same situation as Barcelona - Barcelona built their equivalent of the Crosstown Expressway - 2 lanes for the entire Gardiner would be fine.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Aside from the fact that it's a freeway, sure. But the Gardiner is also a lot like Lakeshore aside from being a freeway

First of all, the Gardiner East is going to be two lanes each way.

Second, if we were in the same situation as Barcelona - Barcelona built their equivalent of the Crosstown Expressway - 2 lanes for the entire Gardiner would be fine.

Which part of Gardiner East is going to be two lanes each way? The existing elevated portion from Yonge to roughly Parliament? I don't think so.

And what crosstown expressway? B-20 is a 3 lane both ways expressway at the northern edge of the city right up against the Collserola ridge - there is no "same situation" because the urban context couldn't be more different.

AoD

 

[amnesiajune]

Which part of Gardiner East is going to be two lanes each way? The existing elevated portion from Yonge to roughly Parliament?

The section east of Jarvis. It's going to be two lanes in each direction instead of the current four.

Anyways, I know I'm not going to get through to you, but Barcelona has two freeways around their city core - one on each side. That's why it's acceptable for those freeways to have a smaller footprint. Toronto planned a freeway on the north side of downtown but it was never built.