Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[interchange42]

Here are shots of the work on the Gardiner in the Fort York area from yesterday afternoon:

42

 

[salsa]

Come comment on a thing that city council has already decided is happening no matter the cost.

 

[Euphoria]

Still think this whole endeavor is half-assed and lacks vision. Tear down the Gardiner. If you still need a downtown highway connection between the DVP and western portion of the Gardiner, run a toll highway underground, preferably under Richmond from the DVP to a Front Street extension for the westbound portion, and under a Front Street extension and Adelaide to the DVP for the eastbound portion. Open up the waterfront. Also, start building on top of the train tracks. We need seamless city to the lake, undivided by highways and tracks, like any great city. This would open up land for development and add to the tax base. Get it right or don't bother.

 

[Armour]

Still think this whole endeavor is half-assed and lacks vision. Tear down the Gardiner. If you still need a downtown highway connection between the DVP and western portion of the Gardiner, run a toll highway underground, preferably under Richmond from the DVP to a Front Street extension for the westbound portion, and under a Front Street extension and Adelaide to the DVP for the eastbound portion. Open up the waterfront. Also, start building on top of the train tracks. We need seamless city to the lake, undivided by highways and tracks, like any great city. This would open up land for development and add to the tax base. Get it right or don't bother.

I don't understand why the Gardiner isn't buried under the harbour. The capacity could even be increased, if need be. The existing Gardiner could then be dismantled after the tunnel(s) is complete.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I don't understand why the Gardiner isn't buried under the harbour. The capacity could even be increased, if need be. The existing Gardiner could then be dismantled after the tunnel(s) is complete.

See Seattle. See Boston.

You think the Spadina Subway Extension is bad? The cost overruns on a Gardiner tunnel near the harbourfront would likely be astronomical.

 

[gweed123]

I don't understand why the Gardiner isn't buried under the harbour. The capacity could even be increased, if need be. The existing Gardiner could then be dismantled after the tunnel(s) is complete.

I proposed something a while ago where basically the Gardiner would be put into a tunnel along the existing waterfront shoreline. A new shore wall would be constructed 40-50 out from the current shoreline, drained, dredged, and the tunnel constructed using cut and cover. The fill could come from the DRL, which should supply most of what's needed.

At the end of it, the Gardiner would be underground from the Exhibition to the DVP, significant chunks of land from the current Gardiner unlocked, and Toronto would have a great new waterfront park stretching all the way from Bathurst to the DVP. The land recovery revenue plus tolling could cover the construction costs.

 

[DSC]

I don't understand why the Gardiner isn't buried under the harbour. The capacity could even be increased, if need be. The existing Gardiner could then be dismantled after the tunnel(s) is complete.

Clearly you also do not understand economics, budgets or politics!

 

[salsa]

Okay, back to reality.

I feel very strongly that tunneling for a subway line like DRL should be coupled with and paid for by an underground toll highway like Paris's A86, perhaps one that runs south from Eglinton West station atop an Allen Expressway tunneled underground. Charge sky-high tolls a la Highway 407 and you have your capitol construction costs covered for the DRL tunneling. Do I think something like this could happen? No. We can't think outside the box and people expect us to build $10 billion subways without funding.

So your idea of paying for the DRL is to build an underground highway and have the tolls pay for the subway? One little problem: now you also have to pay for the highway that you just built. And how many years do we have to waste waiting for the highway to be built first in order to set up the tolls? How about you go read the Metrolinx revenue tool reports to see how infrastructure funding should be done.

Back to reality please.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

More goodies from Oliver Moore:

For my sins, now at technical briefing for #gardinereast hybrid options. I'm told they've got more expensive (shocker) -- to around/over $1B

 

[salsa]

More goodies from Oliver Moore:

For my sins, now at technical briefing for #gardinereast hybrid options. I'm told they've got more expensive (shocker) -- to around/over $1B

Meanwhile the cost of removal would have been $326M.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

More goodies from Oliver Moore:

For my sins, now at technical briefing for #gardinereast hybrid options. I'm told they've got more expensive (shocker) -- to around/over $1B

Meanwhile the cost of removal would have been $326M.

*headdesk*

 

[nfitz]

 

[salsa]

And here's a preview of the "world class" public space that the mayor thinks can be achieved.

 

[nfitz]

The full 20 MB presentation is at: http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toro...ewsroom/Files/Gardiner_media_presentation.pdf

Here are the 3 Hybrid options - looks like Hybrid 1 is the previous one:

 

[Adjei]

And here's a preview of the "world class" public space that the mayor thinks can be achieved.

View attachment 64354

Looks typical Toronto, don't see anything world class about it.