Queen W & Portland fire

[wyliepoon]

I inspected what was left after the fire during my lunch break today.

(Warning: Images may be disturbing for some forumers)

A fun thing you can do with your camera when the streetcar's down

*****

As for the rebuilding process, there is no doubt that something will rise out of the ashes of those buildings. I don't mind if it is historicist or modern... as long as it fits in well with the streetscape, I'm happy (although I certainly won't hope for something as massive as the proposed Home Depot building just down the street).

However it would be quite embarrassing if nothing gets built quickly, especially if Barrie's Five Points (which also recently experienced fire) gets rebuilt sooner than here!

 

[CDL.TO]

Great pics, Wylie. What devestation!

 

[adma]

However it would be quite embarrassing if nothing gets built quickly, especially if Barrie's Five Points (which also recently experienced fire) gets rebuilt sooner than here!

So what if it gets rebuilt sooner? After all, the fire there happened earlier...

Oh, and re rebuilding: I don't mind certain facades (particularly the Dukes/Suspect block) rebuilt as they were--at least insofar as a "correct" rebuilding is preferrable to a weak pastiche...

 

[smuncky]

Excellent pics wylie!

i need to get down there asap tomorrow to take some pics as well.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

As for the rebuilding process, there is no doubt that something will rise out of the ashes of those buildings. I don't mind if it is historicist or modern... as long as it fits in well with the streetscape, I'm happy (although I certainly won't hope for something as massive as the proposed Home Depot building just down the street).

I'm in favor of a modernist, artistic building (example: what I posted on pg. 5). It'd really stand out in a good way like OCAD's box on pencil sticks and have an open-air feel and look. Whatever's done I hope something good comes out of this disaster.

 

[Ummagumma66]

horrible, the sheer size of the fire was astounding, and looking at the photos they were strangely beautiful, yet horrible, a sad day indeed for Toronto.

 

[MetroMan]

Good work Wylie.

How did you get access to Queen st? Cops were blocking every lane way and sidewalk.

 

[adma]

I'm in favor of a modernist, artistic building (example: what I posted on pg. 5). It'd really stand out in a good way like OCAD's box on pencil sticks and have an open-air feel and look. Whatever's done I hope something good comes out of this disaster.

I think the very trouble with suggesting "modernist" is that it evokes thoughts of more banal H&M superwindow fronts--i.e. exactly what the heritage designation was meant to counteract...

 

[Admiral Beez]

Much as it is a disaster to see heritage buildings gone, I don't think there should be an attempt to rebuild them just as they were before. Such efforts are easily spotted as fake.

I've travelled through much of Germany and Eastern Europe, and can attest that buildings can certainly be rebuilt as they once were. In Nürnberg, Germany they have a set of pictures on display at the castle there, showing the near complete leveling of the centuries old downtown historic centre, with pictures also showing the before and after photos. The after photos look almost exactly the same as the before photos...well with fewer Nazis in the background one would assume. It can be done, provided there's money and will.

 

[Earlscourt_Lad]

Finding proper bricklayers and masons will be quite difficult. Have a look at an old brick wall, and note the skill involved in laying patterns and creating different depths of brick to accentuate various details. Now go and look and some modern brickwork, and note how flat, and dull it is; devoid of any sort of intrest and that's not even getting started on the bricks used now.

 

[Jayomatic]

Agreed. Almost every recent building I've seen with brick is lacking any sort of originality or detail which is what made these buildings special.

Never in a million years would you see a developer focus on details around the windows like these

Or spend time on little column details like on this photo on either side of preloved

 

[TrickyRicky]

Insurance is required on buildings for financing so unless there is no mortgage on the buildings it is certain they have insurance. This is separate however from the insurance associated with the businesses operating in the buildings unless they the business owner and property owner are the same. Insurance value is assessed on re-build costs, the cost of replacing the building. The re-build process is controlled by the insurer not the building owner. If the value of the replacement cost assessment is lower than the re-build cost the difference must be paid by the building owner. So the likely scenerio is that that the building owners minimized the replacement cost assessment to reduce their premium payments so the pool of funds available for rebuild is lower than the actual amount needed. This would mean the building owner is out of pocket, not retired on a tropical beach. They could sell but it's value would be a piece of land with a building to be partially rebuilt by the insurance company.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Too bad about the north part of Jazz however.

The buildings lost weren't that special design wise. But they were special for the streets-cape they created. There is absolutely no reason they can't recreate that if they insist on narrow store fronts and multiple buildings for the site rather than just one.

That's a very good point, CityPlaceN1. The reason these buildings created a vibrant streetscape was not because they were old, but because their store frontages were narrow and deep and were able to fit a lot of different stores on a relatively short block. Most of the retail bases that go into contemporary condos make the mistake of creating a wider (rather than deeper) storefront, which is less appealing to walk past.

There are a lot of good examples in Toronto of a modern development fitting in to a sensitive pre-war streetscape. Context's condo on Baldwin street in Kensington market is perhaps the best example, with even used clothing stores clamouring for the space.

 

[JasonParis]

Revitalized block could rise from the rubble
Feb 22, 2008 04:30 AM
Isabel Teotonio
TORONTO STAR
Staff Reporter

When Brian Sversky looks out the window of his Queen St. W. dry cleaning shop at the charred remains of century-old buildings ravaged in a massive fire, he sighs and describes the scene as "a little Ground Zero."

But amidst the rubble, ash and fire-licked brick walls, he also sees an opportunity to revitalize the area and rebuild a block that has long been plagued with criminal activity and drug and alcohol abuse.

"It was a struggling block," said Sversky, who owns Victory Cleaners, a family business that opened in 1943. "But we were starting to see better signs."

Hopefully, the signs of improvement will continue: "We're strong people. ... We can rebuild and make it better."

It's a sentiment that was echoed by other business owners in the wake of the six-alarm blaze on Wednesday morning. The burned-out block is nestled along the bustling Queen St. W. strip, which has long been a hotspot for tourists, shoppers and hipsters.

But unlike the gentrified blocks that stretch east and westward, it's not unusual here to see boarded-up shops, daylight drug deals and vagrants sleeping on doorsteps. Some say nearby social service agencies for the displaced are to blame.

"We are losing old buildings and an important part of Toronto," said Vivian Martin, owner of Johny Banana Mexican Grill on Bathurst St. "But if they build new businesses and make something nice there's a real opportunity here."

Hopefully, she said, new rental units that are sure to fetch a high price will attract tenants with more money for businesses.

The manager of BLVD Interiors on Queen St. W., who goes by the name of Paul V., is also optimistic. "I've noticed an improvement in the area," he said, recalling days when drunks would stumble into the furniture store and pass out on display couches, or drug addicts would get high in the alleyway.

"I don't think the area will slip back down because they'll rebuild. We just need a couple of well-known businesses to move into the area."

 

[Observer Walt]

I've travelled through much of Germany and Eastern Europe, and can attest that buildings can certainly be rebuilt as they once were. In Nürnberg, Germany they have a set of pictures on display at the castle there, showing the near complete leveling of the centuries old downtown historic centre, with pictures also showing the before and after photos. The after photos look almost exactly the same as the before photos...well with fewer Nazis in the background one would assume. It can be done, provided there's money and will.

I would be glad to see something like this on Queen Street, and would be the first to applaud it, but I really doubt that the money will be spent to make it happen.

We've seen faux this and faux that, sometimes in the name of "blending in". Mostly I think that it looks cheap and second-rate. I would prefer to see something that represents itself directly as what it is, rather than an imitation of something that it's actually not. A nice modernist building could certainly work in this location.

The important points IMO are that the size be in proportion to the surroundings (3 - 4 storeys, no highrises), and smallish retailing at the street level would be in keeping with the character of the area. And as mentioned before, red bricks rather than precast should be a given.

I think you can be fully respectful of the surroundings, without slavishly imitating the surroundings or trying to reproduce what was there before.