Public Housing solutions

[fouronesix]

Anyway, could you at least explain how raising the minimum wage "punishes" hard work?

Well it's simple. As a Job Creator (TM), I naturally work 5000x harder than any of the people I employ in the low-wage jobs that I create each and every day.

If my employees were paid some sort of preposterous minimum wage, well, I might as well just stop creating jobs and go work a minimum wage job myself, what with the inevitable riches a government-imposed wage guarantees.

You may think I'm an asshole, and you'd probably be right.

 

[TrickyRicky]

^ Isn't there something odd about the notion of believing in a free-market without interference by government or other? Free means free to play the game by the rules or boundary conditions that constitute the market. A market is, by definition a constraint set of rules set by an authority or consensus. So what we are really saying when we believe in a free market is that everyone should know and play by the rules of the game as set by the authority or consensus, and that we accept the rules set by the authority or consensus. There can be no market without the constraint and interference of those who impose the rules that make the market function.

I still say that more than half of those in social housing would be better served by being given a publicly administered rental subsidy or allowance and that we should rip down most of our existing housing stock. However, we need to acknowledge that some people are just unable to be housed in the private for profit housing market. We should spend MORE on the problem people at the same time as REDUCING the number of individuals in the pubilc system as a whole.

P.S. Admiral, don't worry there are plenty of good old fashion Don Cherry approved white people clogging up the social housing system

 

[Admiral Beez]

P.S. Admiral, don't worry there are plenty of good old fashion Don Cherry approved white people clogging up the social housing system

It's not about colour, it's about Ottawa funding social housing for failed immigrants and their first and second generation descendants living for decades in social housing. Ottawa brought them here, let Ottawa pay their share.

 

[CN Tower]

Well it's simple. As a Job Creator (TM), I naturally work 5000x harder than any of the people I employ in the low-wage jobs that I create each and every day.

If my employees were paid some sort of preposterous minimum wage, well, I might as well just stop creating jobs and go work a minimum wage job myself, what with the inevitable riches a government-imposed wage guarantees.

You may think I'm an asshole, and you'd probably be right.

Ya, I guess you're right. Maybe we should double the current minimum wage. I'm sure no harm will come to society. At least not your utopian one.

I trust neither of you poor excuses for comedians has ever run a business of your own or is comfortable with the notion of For Profit?

 

[TOperson]

Ya, I guess you're right. Maybe we should double the current minimum wage. I'm sure no harm will come to society. At least not your utopian one.

I trust neither of you poor excuses for comedians has ever run a business of your own or is comfortable with the notion of For Profit?

I'm not comfortable with people doing honest work full-time and still not being able to live decently (i.e. pay rent, buy enough quality food, save for emergencies & retirement, have a social life). I consider that harm to society.

It's my understanding that the Australian minimum wage is like $16/hr and in Denmark it's like $25/hr, and both countries' economies are doing just fine, so.

 

[Hipster Duck]

immigrants and their first and second generation descendants living for decades in social housing.

Evidence please!

 

[js97]

Yes! Raise the minimum wage to a living wage so that more people can afford market housing, thereby reducing the demand for public housing. Tax the rich and corporations more to pay for more public housing - stiff cheese if they don't like it. Impose and enforce tariffs, regulations, laws, etc so that corporations can't just pack up their operations and move them to China or wherever because they don't like the tax rate.

All of this stuff has historical precedent in Canada and is currently in place in countries like Germany, Norway, Denmark, and it's working for them.

Those ideas may sound 'good' but their far from being the silver bullet.

Raising minimum wages also increase cost of basic food items. How do you think this will impact food prices when all of a sudden Loblaws/Metro's variable costs shoot up by 30 to 50%? Mininum wage jobs are paid to those that perform a minimum skill job. You will always have a pay gap for those that are performing more advanced/skilled based jobs requiring more education/experience.

Taxation requires a balanced approach, when you 'over tax' people at the highest bracket, it will stifle their motivation to generate more income. The net result will be less tax dollars.

Basic example, I'm at the cusp of a tax bracket where I'm left with decision of continuing in the next bracket, or simply sustain my current income level. If I continue to 'work harder', the chunk the tax man takes from me is an absolute dis-insentive for me to work harder. As I result, I've decided to be complacent, and not further my income level for now. This doesn't provide me with the income to buy a fancier car (generating manufacturing jobs) and I actually pay less taxes due to my flatlined income as opposed if I was taxed at the same bracket.
Taxation isn't about taxing this group or that group, but it's trying to determine a level that will generate the most amount of Gross taxes.

p.s. Denmark also has a 70% highest tax bracket. Name me one major corporation that's head officed there?

It's amazing that people will take a little snipets from other countries but don't actually account for the full picture. Both Denmark and Australia have xenophobic immigration systems. Not good examples to take from.

 

[nfitz]

p.s. Denmark also has a 70% highest tax bracket. Name me one major corporation that's head officed there?

Lego group - one of the biggest toy companies in the world.

And what about Maersk? They are huge. I keep seeing their logo around Toronto

Though I thought Denmark's highest rate was under 60% these days. Seems a bargain compared to France.

 

[TOperson]

Those ideas may sound 'good' but their far from being the silver bullet.
--
It's amazing that people will take a little snipets from other countries but don't actually account for the full picture. Both Denmark and Australia have xenophobic immigration systems. Not good examples to take from.

Your post is all over the place. Raising minimum wages has an effect on a variety of prices, but that doesn't make it bad thing to do. For one thing, it allows people to spend more on consumer goods, which is good for the economy and brings in more (sales) tax revenue to governments.

No one's saying that high-skill jobs shouldn't still get high wages. That has nothing to do with the minimum wage.

Taxation does require a balanced approach, but that doesn't mean NOT taxing the higher brackets at a higher rate. There are all kinds of ways to tax, not only for the purposes of obtaining revenues but also to encourage or discourage certain types of economic behaviour.

It's a myth that higher taxes stifle motivation – that's been studied to death. Canada used to do this, during the economic golden years of the 50s & 60s (wages were higher then too), and loads of new businesses and innovations happened during that time. That was also the time of low university tuition fees, and students graduated without debt. Not a coincidence.

I don't see what difference it makes whether a major corporation has its head office in Denmark or anywhere else. That literally proves nothing at all.

What do the immigration policies of Denmark and Australia have to do with my comment? My point was that those countries manage their economies very well. I didn't say they were perfect.

And it has to be little snippets. This is an online forum post, not a dissertation.

 

[Filip]

Excellent. How do we increase that intake?

So you're saying that it's ok for needy Canadians to be displaced?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The thread isn't about refugee policies. And FYI:

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/7113-Urban-Toronto-Rules-Of-Conduct

AoD

 

[Admiral Beez]

Lego group - one of the biggest toy companies in the world.

Danish companies are hugely successful. They're the #1 pork producer in Europe, IIRC.

Plus, I love their namesake item at Tims

 

[js97]

Your post is all over the place. Raising minimum wages has an effect on a variety of prices, but that doesn't make it bad thing to do. For one thing, it allows people to spend more on consumer goods, which is good for the economy and brings in more (sales) tax revenue to governments.

Flawed. I'm speaking to real values (based on index) not nominal values.



Making a 6 figure income does me no good if basic food costs a year is in the ball park of 80k.

And it has to be little snippets. This is an online forum post, not a dissertation.

It's not about a dissertation, I'm just pointing out the macro impacts of some of the policies you've higlighted. That's why they are flawed. You concentrate on the benefits of one policy without higlighting the impacts, and other costs.

If it's economic or the environment, an artificial stimulate/suppressent (in this case minimum wage increase) isn't isolated to the individual it has broader impacts. In this case, yes, minimum wage is raised, but the cost of living is also raised, so in real terms, all it does is inflate the baseline index. It also impedes smaller businesses.

 

[TOperson]

Flawed. I'm speaking to real values (based on index) not nominal values.

Why assume that I'm not? Nothing in my post indicates that.

The USA is eyeball-deep in a debate about raising the minimum wage right now. The argument that all other prices automatically rise with it, thereby nullifying the effect of the wage increase, has already been debunked - by the real-life experiences of other countries. And, for that matter, our own. Look at the history of the minimum wage in Canada - it very definitely increased the standard of living for minimum wage and other workers, AND companies were still profitable.

Making a 6 figure income does me no good if basic food costs a year is in the ball park of 80k.

That's a made-up figure. A logical fallacy of some kind. Is there anywhere in the world that anyone must spend 80K on basic food to eat a healthy diet?

It's not about a dissertation, I'm just pointing out the macro impacts of some of the policies you've higlighted. That's why they are flawed. You concentrate on the benefits of one policy without higlighting the impacts, and other costs.

Nope. I'm going the other way: looking at the strongest economies with the better income equality rates and noticing how they do it. A better minimum wage is ONE of the ways. Note that my original post listed several - all of which are in practice in the wealthy & equal countries. It's not theoretical.

 

[TrickyRicky]

I don't know what this has to do with social housing but Denmark is actually the go-to location for corporate headquarters for Scandinavian companies. And yes, the cost of living for basic goods throughout these countries is astronomical. Although, I don't know if that has anything to do with their high minimum wages. Hello $20 pint of beer. Hello $25 burger with fries.