Videodrome
Senior Member
Kind of like how Harper and the CPC pushed pipelines, but never approved any of them!
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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada
- Thread starter King of Kensington
- Start date
BurlOak
Senior Member
Aside from the 4 they approved and were built, maybe you are correct.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3Dm_thVcAAeCR-.jpg
BurlOak
Senior Member
The planes weren't built yet in 2012. Why buy something that doesn't exist yet.
Now is the time that countries are starting to fill the orders and they are dumping their old obsolete F-18's on third world and other minor countries.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Perhaps you should ask when those countries ordered theirs. Helpful link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_procurement#Australia
You will have to remind me who was our PM in 2014. Did anyone sign contracts then?
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Looks like they didn't want to bind future governments, since decision time was about a year before the election.
I recall in the early 90's one government ordered high tech helicopters and the incoming government, due to careless election promises based on politics and not facts, cancelled the project and cost Canada hundreds of millions, plus an opportunity to have state-of-the-art equipment.
At least in this case, it's only that Canada looks stupid, but we didn't lose the massive money we did 2 decades ago.
I recall in the early 90's one government ordered high tech helicopters and the incoming government, due to careless election promises based on politics and not facts, cancelled the project and cost Canada hundreds of millions, plus an opportunity to have state-of-the-art equipment.
At least in this case, it's only that Canada looks stupid, but we didn't lose the massive money we did 2 decades ago.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Funny, considering how many multi-billion shipbuilding contracts said government which supposedly didn't want to bind future governments had signed. Not wanting to tie the hands of future government sure looks like one BS argument.
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Videodrome
Senior Member
Fair enough.
I find a lot of people are hanging on to memories of Stephen Harper, which might make sense considering that Andrew Scheer is a total disaster.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
He couldn't have bought anything during his tenure. No one outside of the USA had received any F-35s during that time, with only now a trickle of units arriving to Israel and other buyers. So, even if Harper had issued a hard PO, Trudeau would have still canceled it, paid a fine (same as Chretien did with the EH-101 cancellation) and we'd be in the same situation today. The only way Harper could have forced Trudeau to accept the F-35 would have been a full or nearly full, irrevocable prepayment to Lockheed-Martin. And no government is going to pay fully upfront in 2015 or earlier on an untested aircraft.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
His government could have signed the contract during his tenure that would translate into the planes delivering now. Which is exactly what other countries did. Harper didn't do that - in fact he halted the process after the AG and PBO reports because of public opinion flak.
Besides, arguing that he didn't do it because Trudeau will cancel the contract is really weak - given he could have signed on much earlier, and besides as a government campaigning for re-election surely you are not suggesting you didn't do so because your opponent might win and undo your contract? If anything, that's an incentive to sign on earlier because it will land any potential new government a hot potato (not that delaying procurement in and on itself isn't one). Also keep in mind that Harper's government didn't hesitate to sign long lead-time, multi-billion procurement contracts loaded with regional incentives for ships either.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
And he bought new (to us) tanks, new heavy lift transport aircraft. Harper wasn't great, but not the worst PM military-wise.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Didn't say that he was, but that's not the terms of the engagement - which is why the procurement is in the state that it is in. He can't wash his hands of his responsibility in this matter.
(Ironically, those procurements happened during the early years, before the economic crisis hit and the prioritization of deficit reduction above all else).
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
Is Harper trying to avoid any responsibility for the status of the Future Fighter Capability Project?
When I search the news for F-35 and Harper I find nothing current.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=harp...-InYAhXl1IMKHedVDS4Q_AUICygC&biw=1366&bih=637
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I wouldn't say that he tried to avoid responsibility (because at the end of the day, he made the calls) - it is more directed at the claims that he has no responsibility over this issue.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
I don't consider it ironic that the government spent more on defence when it had more money to spend.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
I find it ironic when a government go on and on about protecting the country chose boutique tax cuts and all out deficit reduction over defense when push comes to shove.
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