Planned School Closures by the TDSB

[nfitz]

You may have been hearing it, but that's the reality.

Not sure your point. For my entire life I've been hearing how we've got more teachers than positions (it's more than 30 years now I think about it ... as I recall warning when I was in school that there was no point in going into teaching. I don't see much difference here.

More importantly, I don't see the relevance of this to school closures.

Less schools presumably means less teachers. I think you'd have to be naive to believe that staffing levels would likely remain the same...

Even the small schools I'm familiar with seem to manage to get close to the maximum of 20 students in each classroom for the junior grades. There'd be a handful less positions perhaps ... but there isn't a significant saving. And it's certainly dwarfed by the rollout of full-day kindergarten.

The issue isn't that classrooms are half-empty. The issue is that schools don't have enough classrooms being utilized.

 

[wopchop]

Not sure your point. For my entire life I've been hearing how we've got more teachers than positions (it's more than 30 years now I think about it ... as I recall warning when I was in school that there was no point in going into teaching. I don't see much difference here.

More importantly, I don't see the relevance of this to school closures.

Fine, drop it. Like I said before, I was adding a little diatribe on to what TORealty was saying about feeling bad for teachers. I feel bad for them too. You may have been hearing that you whole life, but that's simply wrong. From 2000 to about 2005, the government was saying "OMFG WE NEED TEACHERS". Anyway, its off-topic and we can move on.

Even the small schools I'm familiar with seem to manage to get close to the maximum of 20 students in each classroom for the junior grades. There'd be a handful less positions perhaps ... but there isn't a significant saving. And it's certainly dwarfed by the rollout of full-day kindergarten.

The issue isn't that classrooms are half-empty. The issue is that schools don't have enough classrooms being utilized.

It's the same problem. Many places would require renovations or additions to add classrooms, and it's not like the TDSB has the money to do that.

The maximum is not 20 students. There is no cap for kindergarten, just a requirement that the average across the board be 26 (my friend has a son in a JK class of about 36). For primary, the cap is 23 students, but most schools currently have 20. For elementary, I believe it is 25 students.

There was also recently talk last year about softening the classroom size caps, so don't be surprised to see it back on the table during the next contract negotiations with the union (They were apparently open to the idea 2 years ago). This would definitely affect school closures / consolidations.

 

[nfitz]

It's the same problem. Many places would require renovations or additions to add classrooms, and it's not like the TDSB has the money to do that.

Also true. When you look at some of the emptier schools, the surrounding schools are near, or even above capacity. There's some obvious targets. But not many.

The maximum is not 20 students.

The government has a target of 90%% of all classes having 20 students or less. They are only allowed to have 10% of classes with the extra 3 students. I recall having 30 students per class in elementary in Ontario. Of course there was also the strap to keep the kids in line back then ... and no one in grade 1 would be caught dead walking to school with their parents. Now I think they put me in jail, if I sent my Grade 1 student to school by themselves, despite the drop in violent crime against children since when I was a kid.

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/cst/faqSmaller.html]There is no cap for kindergarten, just a requirement that the average across the board be 26 (my friend has a son in a JK class of about 36).

Yeah, I was only thinking of primary. Still, that's based on 2 educators for every 26 students. That's only 13 educators per teacher on average. 36 seems excessive. I hope they have 3 in there. Though if it was 18:1 we wouldn't think it was excessive. So 36:2 mightn't be too bad. Hopefully there's lots of parent volunteers in the classroom every day.

For primary, the cap is 23 students, but most schools currently have 20. For elementary, I believe it is 25 students.

I admit it's been a few years since I was in school, but when did the definition of elementary and primary change? Gosh, first we move away from common and grammar schools. Now we seem to have changed again. I can't keep up!

 

[wopchop]

I admit it's been a few years since I was in school, but when did the definition of elementary and primary change? Gosh, first we move away from common and grammar schools. Now we seem to have changed again. I can't keep up!

This I don't know. Definitely some time after I went through elementary school, that's for sure!

Yeah, I was only thinking of primary. Still, that's based on 2 educators for every 26 students. That's only 13 educators per teacher on average. 36 seems excessive. I hope they have 3 in there. Though if it was 18:1 we wouldn't think it was excessive. So 36:2 mightn't be too bad. Hopefully there's lots of parent volunteers in the classroom every day.

Just to clarify, it isn't 2 teachers per classroom. It is 1 certified teacher and 1 early childhood educator.

 

[Johnny Au]

Don't forget special needs educators, especially those who deal with children with learning disabilities who attend regular classes.

 

[Tewder]

Don't forget special needs educators, especially those who deal with children with learning disabilities who attend regular classes.

I'd rather see more funds for special needs than separate catholic school system.

 

[Johnny Au]

I'd rather see more funds for special needs than separate catholic school system.

I must agree with that.

 

[Tewder]

I think Jesus would agree too.