Toronto Nicholas Residences | ?m | 35s | Urban Capital | Core Architects

musters said:
Oh and DarnDirtyApe, please stop commenting on this thread because you obviously do not know this neighbourhood. Complaining about 44 stories when a block away 80 stories is going up? It's already all shadows downtown. And we're happy with it. Let's focus on the design and the neighbourhood aesthetics instead.
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I actually live at the corner of St. Nicholas & St. Joseph, but I guess you're right. Obviously I don't know the neighbourhood at all. How well do you know the neighbourhood? Where do you live? This site is a world apart from Yonge & Bloor. You'd have to be willfully blind to not see a difference, try walking around there sometime.

To be honest I wouldn't have a problem with a building that was the same height as the Scientology building or the one on the north side of St. Mary, but that's not what we're talking about. I'm not a big fan of the building on the SW corner, but it's there now so we have to deal with it.

Hey Urban Shocker, how would you feel about this proposal if it were in your neighbourhood? I notice you are always in favour of proposals for modernist high-rises, yet you live in a neighbourhood full of kitchy Victorianism. Seems to be a bit inconsistent...
 
tylergreenleaf said:
I, too, really like the building that holds that the organization that shall not be named. It just needs a bit of upkeep on its windows, a bit of paint perhaps.
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Paint, maybe; but not replacement. The original sash is a fundamental part of its appeal...
 
Actually, Ape, my immediate neighbourhood consists of small, unpretentious semis from 1908. Yours abuts Yonge Street, and building tall there is perfectly acceptable given Toronto's official plan - which calls for directing development along transit lines and major streets rather than to established residential neighbourhoods such as mine.
 
Does it look like this?

4563stnicholas1sb8.jpg
 
I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or not, but those row houses are directly south of the site in question. According to tobuilt they were built in 1884. Across the road are stacked townhouses that I believe were built in the 1980's. I believe this would qualify as a 'stable residential neighbourhood' even though it's down the road from a major street. I don't think a 45-storey tower on Yonge street in this area would go over very well either.

Incidentally, according to the official plan the site is designated "mixed use", although strangely enough the low-rise area to the south along St. Nicholas street is designated "apartment neighbourhood" even though the tallest building around there is about 5 stories. FYI the White apartment building (25 St. Mary) is 24 stories. Both of the U of T apartment buildings on Charles are 20 stories, although they are technically within the area of the Yorkville BIA which I would argue has a different 'feel' to the neighbourhood.

Anyway, the whole point of the official plan was to promote intensification through mid-rise development along major avenues. This proposal is not on a major street, and is certainly not mid-rise. IMHO the city has to start saying no to developers who want to put yet another 40+ storey building in the downtown core in an inappropriate location. There are plenty of other places in the city that are ripe for re-development.

FYI I'm not part of the Bay Street resident's association, nor do I actually live on Bay street. However, I can understand why they're angry at the way development happens in this city. At this point we might as well throw out the official plan, because it's pretty clear that it's not being followed. As long as a developer has deep enough pockets, they can push through pretty much anything with only token modifications ("You think 75 stories is too much? How about 70? What if I give you $500K to build a parkette?").
 
I don't have misgivings about this particular proposal, but I do about the aggregate.

I love tall buildings. I still stand at the corner of King and Bay in awe. I actually laid down on the plaza between the WTC 19 years ago (if only I'd had the foresight to take pics!!).

I am not a big fan of those old, Victorian homes, either. Personally, I would prefer to live on the 40th floor of one of those tall condos.

What does concern me, however, is the rush - no the desperation, this city seems to be in to throw up condos everywhere. I remember when the St. Joseph St. area was home to an eclectic mix of bars, restaurants and clubs. Then the area became 'gentrified' and the night scene moved east and south-west. Now, those areas are being gentrified and bars and clubs are being chased out again.

It seems to me that a lot of people on this board champion the 'walkable,' 'liveable' city, but I have serious reservations about what is going on in the 4 or 5 block radius, centered on Yonge and Bloor. Five years ago, the area was very 'walkable.' Now, it is a blighted area of festering 20 meter holes in the ground, over-run with cement mixers and dump trucks. What will this area look like in another 5 years? From a post-card vantage point, I venture to say this area will look stunning. Dubai will be bow down in awe. But from the sidewalk?

I don't care about sunshadows, but why must these buildings be built right to the curb? The '70s planners had it right: set the buildings back from the sidewalk surrounded by a plaza or park. Village Green and Plaza 100 (Wellelsey/Jarvis) are good examples of this thinking.

These tiny, one way streets are no place for 40 story buildings. No way, no how.
 
Save Saint Nicholas

I live in the historic row houses on St. Nicholas, and am outraged at this latest encroachment. As most people know, St. Nicholas is tree lined and cobbled. On the west side of the Street there is a row of 1880s listed row houses and on the east side, there are some newer townhouses that have been constructed to reflect the characteristics of the listed row. The street is heavily pedestrian with many people choosing to walk up St. Nicholas rather than walk up Yonge or Bay. It is a simply an oasis that must be protected and preserved. The only high building south of St. Mary’s is Place Marie apartments which is set in the middle of a large green space.

I have been to the City Planning Office to view the submission from Urban Capital. I viewed all of the plans and read the consultants reports.

After reading the Planning Rational (written by Bousfields Inc). and viewing the renderings of the proposed condo it is become completely apparent that in no way does is this structure appropriate in scale and massing to the existing street (St. Nicholas). The relationship between any structure higher than the existing structures on the corner of St. Nicholas and St. Mary is unsuitable and will ruin the current charm and functionality of the street.

St. Nicholas Street has evolved over the years, in particular with the townhouses of the Polo Club directly across the street. The original designs called for the Polo tower to be placed on this site, but the residence of the historic row opposed, and as such the developer built the existing townhouses to mimic the cottages on the west side of the street.

If this condo project goes ahead, it will significantly impact all of the adjacent properties, including shadow, privacy, and garbage disposal and servicing. (In particular because the entrance to all servicing, garbage and parking will be directly beside the historic row of houses)

There are very few streets like St. Nicholas left in the City and it is my duty to all the people that will live here in 20, 50 and 100+ years in the future to do everything I can do to preserve its current state. It is primarily a pedestrian street and the existing buildings at 15 St. Mary’s and the old Planing Mill (built in the 1880s) at 65 St. Nicholas (which are both slated to be demolished) and highly oriented to the pedestrian. A 44 storey building would be detrimental to the spirit and sensibility of the existing street.

In my discussions with neighbours, and those on my street, I have met not one person who supports this project. It is my great hope that our City Planners will agree with me and issue a Refusal Report to the developer’s request to change the zoning of this particular site.

Anyone interested in joining our fight is TRULY WELCOME!! Please contact the Bay Corridor Community Association @ info@baycorridor.ca
 
Dichotomy said:
I am not a big fan of those old, Victorian homes, either. Personally, I would prefer to live on the 40th floor of one of those tall condos.
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Really? I seem to recall you saying quite frequently in other threads that, outside of Hong Kong, nobody ought to live in a 500 square foot box in the sky.
 
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