New Transit Funding Sources

[WislaHD]

Thus, that leaves $1.4B for DRL long.

You mean for Scarborough.

 

[TOareaFan]

$20B over 11 years.

Assuming Toronto gets double their share based on population - that amounts to $4B. I think the SmartTrack commitment was $2.6B.

Thus, that leaves $1.4B for DRL long.

budget specifically says the $20.1 B would be allocated based on population and ridership....why would Toronto get double their share?

 

[W. K. Lis]

View attachment 102616

Help us Kathleen Wynne, you're our only hope... for a provincial public transit tax credit to replace the federal public transit tax credit. (Not going to happen.)

 

[kEiThZ]

Help us Kathleen Wynne, you're our only hope... for a provincial public transit tax credit to replace the federal public transit tax credit. (Not going to happen.)

Nor should it. Boutique tax cuts are BS. I'd rather they just put more money in transit or give broadbrush tax cuts (like raising the basic income exemption).

 

[JoEddie7677]

Still won't cover all proposed transit projects

 

[jje1000]

So basically a "Nice to see", but no panacea for the total amount of transit that needs funding?

Direct link to Budget:

http://www.budget.gc.ca/2017/docs/plan/budget-2017-en.pdf

The projects, however, receive no specific funding commitment, as the money has to be worked out with the provinces and territories. As well, the government doesn't expect any of the new transit money to be spent in 2017-18, as it works out deals with the different levels of government.

http://www.nationalobserver.com/201...d-class-public-transit-its-cities-budget-says

 

[W. K. Lis]

The city could always ban cars from the downtown to get more riders on the TTC and GO.

According to this link, London, England was going to ban diesel cars by 2020. I speculate that they might change that to ban even more cars because of today's incident near the Palace of Westminster.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With the disappearance of the federal public transit tax credit, maybe the feds (and the provinces) should consider an operation subsidy. One equal to 30% of the operational expenses for all transit agencies in Canada. That leaves 69.5% of the TTC expenses coming out of the farebox. Of course with Mississauga getting 46% out of the farebox, Ottawa getting 45%, and so on, the local governments will have to cover the rest. With Toronto, that would be .5%. See link.

 

[TOareaFan]

With the disappearance of the federal public transit tax credit, maybe the feds (and the provinces) should consider an operation subsidy. One equal to 30% of the operational expenses for all transit agencies in Canada. That leaves 69.5% of the TTC expenses coming out of the farebox. Of course with Mississauga getting 46% out of the farebox, Ottawa getting 45%, and so on, the local governments will have to cover the rest. With Toronto, that would be .5%. See link.

relative to the cost of the tax credit (which was reportedly costing Ottawa $200MM a year) isn't that a lot of money?

 

[jje1000]

Considering the deficit-eliminating scramble in Queens Park at the moment, I wouldn't count on additional funds.

Interesting notes indicating the direction the funds will be headed (and the ever increasing share the Scaborough Subway is consuming):

Toronto still more than $7 billion short for transit projects even after federal budget funding

The federal contribution is “most welcome,” said Mayor John Tory, but “now we have to move forward and see what the provincial budget does.”

Toronto is still more than $7 billion short of what it requires to pay for urgently needed transit projects, despite an injection of funding from the 2017 federal budget.

Following the release of the Liberals’ spending plan Wednesday, Mayor John Tory’s office praised what it estimated would be a $5-billion investment for Toronto under the second phase of the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund. A statement from Tory said the money would provide “major benefits” for residents of the traffic-clogged city.

The federal government would not verify the mayor’s $5-billion estimate Thursday, but did confirm the funding would include $660 million that Ottawa had already pledged towards the one-stop Scarborough subway extension.

If the mayor’s math is right, that would leave the city with about $4.3 billion to spend on other priority projects that are partially or completely unfunded, including the relief line subway, the Eglinton East LRT, and Tory’s SmartTrack plan.

The provincial Liberals are set to table their own spending plan next month. A spokesperson for Finance Minister Charles Sousa would make no commitments about contributing more to Toronto’s transit projects.

But the fact that other transit projects will have to split the infrastructure funding with the underground extension has critics renewing their calls for councillors to reject the Scarborough subway when it comes up for a vote at next week’s council meeting.

The estimated cost of the six-kilometre extension of Line 2 to Scarborough Town Centre has already ballooned from $2 billion to at least $3.4 billion, even as the number of stations has dwindled from three to one and estimates of the number of new riders the project would attract have been slashed.

The projects the city submitted for funding were: SmartTrack, estimated at $3.7 billion; the relief subway line ($6.8 billion); Eglinton East LRT (about $1.6 billion); and Waterfront transit ($1.5 billion).

Together, the projects are estimated to cost at least $13.6 billion.

The city’s 2017 capital plan included close to $2 billion for SmartTrack, which, in addition to the federal funding announced Wednesday, would leave the remaining projects more than $7 billion short.

It’s not yet clear whether the city could decide to use the federal money to prioritize some

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...ojects-even-after-federal-budget-funding.html

 

[TOareaFan]

if the Feds $20.1B over 11 years included money already promised (eg. the $660MM to the B-D subway extension) it would be interesting to know how many other projects across the country have already been committed to and are included in that $20.1B. Since they were clawing back the $200MM a year in tax credits, their net commitment to transit was actually around $17.9B over 11 years........now it is down to $17.24B of new money.....are there other projects that reduce the new money commitment?

to be honest, I have never seen a federal or provincial government commit/project things over 11 years.....I really think they did that just so they could get their commitment up over $20B for optics....after netting out the eliminated tax credit, and if we start netting out money that had already been committed (in the case of B-D by a previous government) I wonder if they really should have been projecting out more than 11 years

 

[crs1026]

relative to the cost of the tax credit (which was reportedly costing Ottawa $200MM a year) isn't that a lot of money?

$200 M at 15% credit = $1.3B in claimed pass purchases. If that is anywhere near accurate, it's successful to me. But maybe those people were buying passes before the credit was introduced.

$200M spread across the major municipalities as a revenue subsidy doesn't seem like a huge amount.

- Paul

 

[TOareaFan]

$200 M at 15% credit = $1.3B in claimed pass purchases. If that is anywhere near accurate, it's successful to me. But maybe those people were buying passes before the credit was introduced.

I think that is the beef with it....that it did not attract many people to public transit....just rewarded those that were already using it regularly.

Personally (as someone who never claimed the credit) I see nothing wrong with that.

$200M spread across the major municipalities as a revenue subsidy doesn't seem like a huge amount.

People who support the credit will tell you the subsidy to the municipalities is not the amount of the credits but, rather, the fares that they supported/generated.....in your math the $1.3B

 

[W. K. Lis]

The problem remains that to the federal government, cities are a non-existing form of government or entity to them. They refuse to direct money or subsidies directly to the cities that need them, but have to hand it off to the provinces.

 

[WislaHD]

I think this is perhaps the most appropriate thread for this:

(Side note: Should there be a Metrolinx-specific thread on here? I mean, they are their own sort of independent organization within the Ministry of Transportation.)

Here's what caught my eye in all of that:

Oliver Moore Retweeted
Rahul Gupta‏@TOinTransit 26m26 minutes ago



Rahul Gupta Retweeted Metrolinx

official release on McCuaig's departure

Rahul Gupta added,

Metrolinx@Metrolinx
Bruce McCuaig to leave Metrolinx to accept new role at Canada Infrastructure Bank http://bit.ly/2nrjbUO
0 replies 1 retweet 0 likes



Whoa...I have some concerns, but as always, the fine details are what matters. It might be a while until the curtain is pulled back on that act.

Bruce McCuaig is out. Heading to Canada Infrastructure Bank. At least we have somebody there that understands transit priorities in the GTHA region.