Natural Grass in the Rogers Centre/Possibility of a New Baseball Stadium in Toronto

[TOareaFan]

Yankee Stadium hosts soccer, not football. Football and rugby have end zones.

I guess that is a difference....would be interesting to see if it would even fit in a grass configuration....academic since the owners have asked the argos to leave but I think they are riding a bit of a PR freebee by saying "for us to go grass the argos need to go" without being questioned/challenged on that.

 

[Translude15]

I have no idea why my asking why Rogers Centre with grass can't support/host another sport when Yankee stadium with grass can/does is being a smart ass....thanks for the name calling...it always improves a discussion

Well for one, the Yankee Stadium arrangement with NYCFC isn't permanent, so that's a key difference between what the Jays-Argos relationship, not to mention the Yankees have an ownership stake in NYCFC so naturally they're going to be more accommodating. But again, key point there is the arrangement is only temporary.

Second, Rogers owns the Dome so it's their prerogative to do whatever they wish with the stadium. Maybe it's not fair that they no longer want the Argos as tenants but I don't understand how they shouldn't be free to dictate the operational structure of the stadium going forward, especially considering the impending grass installation and ~$400 million retrofit.

Baseball-primary stadia have become the norm in MLB over the past two decades and considering the Jays have never played on a natural grass surface at home during their existence I can understand why ownership would want to make them the sole tenants during the summer months at least. That's not to say the Grey Cup couldn't still be played at the RC but the BMO Field option seems like a pretty decent arrangement for the Argos and the CFL.

 

[animatronic]

Well for one, the Yankee Stadium arrangement with NYCFC isn't permanent, so that's a key difference between what the Jays-Argos relationship, not to mention the Yankees have an ownership stake in NYCFC so naturally they're going to be more accommodating. But again, key point there is the arrangement is only temporary.

Second, Rogers owns the Dome so it's their prerogative to do whatever they wish with the stadium. Maybe it's not fair that they no longer want the Argos as tenants but I don't understand how they shouldn't be free to dictate the operational structure of the stadium going forward, especially considering the impending grass installation and ~$400 million retrofit.

Baseball-primary stadia have become the norm in MLB over the past two decades and considering the Jays have never played on a natural grass surface at home during their existence I can understand why ownership would want to make them the sole tenants during the summer months at least. That's not to say the Grey Cup couldn't still be played at the RC but the BMO Field option seems like a pretty decent arrangement for the Argos and the CFL.

Once the field is converted to baseball-only there's no going back. The reno will either replace the 100-level seats or at least fix them in a baseball config. BMO could host with temporary seats but no more grey cups for Skydome.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Once the field is converted to baseball-only there's no going back. The reno will either replace the 100-level seats or at least fix them in a baseball config. BMO could host with temporary seats but no more grey cups for Skydome.

Yeah, I think this is the main reason. For those who haven't seen it (or forgot), the 100 level is on tracks so the seats behind home plate kind of rotate out towards the sidelines for football. I'm not saying it's impossible to work around that (or some other kind of baseball-football conversion) but I always assumed the simple physical structure of the field and stands was the reason. that's why, as others have already said, if they're doing grass they'll likely rip up or substantially redo the entire 100 level

EDIT: Just to say this also answers the Yankee Stadium question. Rogers Centre's stands are designed to change configuration but can no longer do that once the grass is in. In theory you can do anything (have a concert, monster truck rally or whatever) on a given flat surface but it sounds like they're going to lock the seats and do what they can to protect the grass which is sure to be a relatively unique field.

 

[nfitz]

I guess I am wondering why a grassed Yankee Stadium doesn't have to be baseball only but a grassed Rogers Centre does.

Yes, that's a very good question.

Why can they play soccer at Yankee stadium with grass, but not football at Rogers stadium with grass? Sure, the CFL pitch is longer, but we know the CFL pitch already fits in Skydome.

 

[animatronic]

Yes, that's a very good question.

Why can they play soccer at Yankee stadium with grass, but not football at Rogers stadium with grass? Sure, the CFL pitch is longer, but we know the CFL pitch already fits in Skydome.

A regulation soccer pitch is approx. 115 yards long by 75 yards wide, though it can go as small as 110x70. That can just squeeze onto a baseball field. A CFL field is 150 yards long by 65 yards wide, which cannot fit onto a baseball field. Once the Skydome converts to grass, the 100-level seats will no longer rotate to make room for football and it will never host another CFL game again. Full stop.

 

[Translude15]

A regulation soccer pitch is approx. 115 yards long by 75 yards wide, though it can go as small as 110x70. That can just squeeze onto a baseball field. A CFL field is 150 yards long by 65 yards wide, which cannot fit onto a baseball field. Once the Skydome converts to grass, the 100-level seats will no longer rotate to make room for football and it will never host another CFL game again. Full stop.

Well, there you have it.

 

[GenerationW]

Once the field is converted to baseball-only there's no going back. The reno will either replace the 100-level seats or at least fix them in a baseball config. BMO could host with temporary seats but no more grey cups for Skydome.

Not what I've been hearing. A Skydome with grass wouldn't be able to be converted to football (or anything else) from April-October, but it could be done after baseball season.

 

[nfitz]

A regulation soccer pitch is approx. 115 yards long by 75 yards wide, though it can go as small as 110x70. That can just squeeze onto a baseball field. A CFL field is 150 yards long by 65 yards wide, which cannot fit onto a baseball field. Once the Skydome converts to grass, the 100-level seats will no longer rotate to make room for football and it will never host another CFL game again. Full stop.

Then just redesign those seats so that they can still rotate, or be removed somehow without fouling the grass.

It doesn't sound like an engineering impossibility - just a willingness and cost issue.

Not what I've been hearing. A Skydome with grass wouldn't be able to be converted to football (or anything else) from April-October, but it could be done after baseball season.

So perhaps a half stop instead of a full stop.

So I guess nothing stopping TFC moving to Skydome then, if it's all about the length of the pitch (which is the same reason the Argos are going to have to find $20 million or so to renovate BMO Field to fit their pitch in - because currently there currently permanent seating and structures both north of south of the 115-yard long pitch).

Which will be at least useful for early March Champions League games.

 

[Johnny Au]

Not just that, but Canada is hosting some 2018 FIFA World Cup qualifying matches at BMO Field (the first will be on June 16 vs. Grenada).

 

[nfitz]

Not just that, but Canada is hosting some 2018 FIFA World Cup qualifying matches at BMO Field (the first will be on June 16 vs. Grenada).

And both a Gold Cup double-header and a Rugby Pacific Nations Cup triple-header in July. CSA has indicated the late August/early September 2015 and 2016 World Cup qualifier matches will be at BMO as well, assuming Canada advances. BMO still seems to be the primary location for competitive Canada matches - the entire 2014 qualifying was done there. And Rugby Canada has found unprecedented success in ticket sales there in the last 3-4 years.

If only there was some magical results, to follow the spectacular success that TFC, CSA, and Rugby Canada have all achieved in ticket sales at BMO. And maybe that's why the Argos are looking for the same magic.

 

[TOareaFan]

For the baseball should be played on grass folks who might have worried that the new turf layed this year might put off conversio to grass.....perhaps not...the new turf is hardly getting rave reviews:

Jennifer Quinn ‏@JQStar 30s31 seconds ago
Jennifer Quinn retweeted Eduardo A. Encina
The #Orioles considered boycotting #BlueJays game b/c of turf, reports @EddieInTheYard of the Baltimore Sun ... Jennifer Quinn added,
Eduardo A. Encina @EddieInTheYard
In fact, there was consideration by #Orioles of not playing Tues night, especially after Paredes was hurt on bad hop. O's have contacted MLB

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

For the baseball should be played on grass folks who might have worried that the new turf layed this year might put off conversio to grass.....perhaps not...the new turf is hardly getting rave reviews:

Jennifer Quinn ‏@JQStar 30s31 seconds ago
Jennifer Quinn retweeted Eduardo A. Encina
The #Orioles considered boycotting #BlueJays game b/c of turf, reports @EddieInTheYard of the Baltimore Sun ... Jennifer Quinn added,
Eduardo A. Encina @EddieInTheYard
In fact, there was consideration by #Orioles of not playing Tues night, especially after Paredes was hurt on bad hop. O's have contacted MLB

First, they got the new turf because the stuff is only good for five years or so and the last one needed replacement. It was never putting off the grass though, I suppose, it buys them a couple of years of leeway.

Secondly, the reviews are beside the point. Everyone knows when you get new shoes they need a bit of time to break in and it's the same deal with the turf. There's nothing "wrong" with it.

Third, in case it wasn't clear from watching the series this week, the Orioles are jerks. I was at the game on Tuesday and saw Buck Showalter checking out the turf and complaining to the umps before the game. It was especially funny because I saw one of the local sports hacks on Twitter talking about the turf last week, before the Os showed up, saying that if anyone was going threaten to outright not play because of the turf, it'd be Showalter. And then he did. And then we swept them.

 

[Translude15]

First, they got the new turf because the stuff is only good for five years or so and the last one needed replacement. It was never putting off the grass though, I suppose, it buys them a couple of years of leeway.

Secondly, the reviews are beside the point. Everyone knows when you get new shoes they need a bit of time to break in and it's the same deal with the turf. There's nothing "wrong" with it.

Third, in case it wasn't clear from watching the series this week, the Orioles are jerks. I was at the game on Tuesday and saw Buck Showalter checking out the turf and complaining to the umps before the game. It was especially funny because I saw one of the local sports hacks on Twitter talking about the turf last week, before the Os showed up, saying that if anyone was going threaten to outright not play because of the turf, it'd be Showalter. And then he did. And then we swept them.

Was at Tuesday's game as well and completely agree. The potential boycott is more indicative of Buck Showalter's preponderance to being a pain in the ass than the stuff being subpar quality. Besides playing a lot slower it at least looks a lot better than previous versions have.

 

[animatronic]

http://www.tsn.ca/bell-tanenbaum-to-own-argonauts-1.286511

The long-awaited sale of the Toronto Argonauts is expected to be announced as soon as Wednesday, paving the way for the CFL team to move into a renovated BMO Field in time for the 2016 season.

The new Argo ownership will be a partnership between Bell and Toronto businessman Larry Tanenbaum, two of the three partners in Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

Negotiations between Argos owner David Braley and MLSE, which manages BMO Field, go back more than year. However, those talks became complicated when MLSE’s third partner, Rogers Communications, did not want to be part of the deal.

Bell is the majority owner of TSN, the exclusive television rights holder of the CFL.The deal includes the Argos hosting two Grey Cup games, including the 2016 CFL championship game.

Whether either or both of those games will be played at Rogers Centre or BMO Field is yet to be determined, with the possibility the 2016 game could coincide with the NHL staging its first Toronto outdoor game at BMO.

Braley, who also owns the CFL’s B.C. Lions, took on the Argo ownership in February of 2010 after six years of operation headed by Toronto businessmen Howard Sokolowski and David Cynamon.

Attempts by Sokolowski and Cynamon to move the Argos from Rogers Centre to a new stadium, first at the University of Toronto and later at York University, both failed to get off the ground.

In 2013, Rogers Communications, owner of the MLB’s Toronto Blue Jays and the Rogers Centre, told the Argos they would not be welcomed as a tenant beyond 2017, due to the baseball club’s desire to install real grass at the facility.

The Rogers Centre has been heavily criticized as a football venue and the Argos have been frustrated at the inability to secure favourable dates for their schedule in recent years.

The CFL believes getting into a suitable outdoor facility, such as BMO Field, will significantly improve both the fan experience and the economics of operating the team.