Metrolinx: Sheppard East LRT (In Design)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Even if it does start to develop, how much of that will include office buildings? One of the pro-subway arguments that is used to justify is that the subway will attract jobs to STC. But it should have been pretty obvious by now that the suburban Toronto office market is pretty uncompetitive to the 905, when even the most prime locations have struggled or failed to attract any commercial development.

Wrong! There's little money to be made to build here so the developers are avoiding it. Construction costs are similar here to anywhere else in Toronto but the amount they can charge purchasers is less than they can in areas of Toronto that are booming. Subway won't change that. Don't expect much in growth here for a long time.

Yup. They said this in 1995 and 2000, and 2005. The subways won't fix SCC, you have to lower taxes for that. Or admit defeat and make it a condo residential neighbourhood.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Wrong! There's little money to be made to build here so the developers are avoiding it. Construction costs are similar here to anywhere else in Toronto but the amount they can charge purchasers is less than they can in areas of Toronto that are booming. Subway won't change that. Don't expect much in growth here for a long time.

I'd argue that having the subway will increase prices a bit. I mean if Vaughan can sell over 2,000 units in a single year in the middle of an industrial park just because of subway access, I'm sure Scarborough can manage something. I'm not expecting 40 new towers 10 years from now.. but the market should be able to support growth.

 

[OneCity]

Not only 416 - pretty much all the centres identified in the plans saw little to no new office development (none in Islington/Kipling; none in NYCC, none in SCC, none in Y+E and Y+St. Clair; none in MCC) and it is questionable as to whether the new centres (VMC, Markham) will see sustained office development after the initial burst of activity (which the 416 centres and MCC all had to start off).

AoD

These are highly successful commuter bedroom communities. Is that bad? Not as long as business is coming to the City and all residents have fast access to these businesses.

Unfortunately the City is not as focused on attracting business to its suburban Centers. The 905 has much better success attracting business because they have a focused plan with incentives. I dont see that happening in Toronto's suburbs anytime soon.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Not only 416 - pretty much all the centres identified in the plans saw little to no new office development (none in Islington/Kipling; none in NYCC, none in SCC, none in Y+E and Y+St. Clair; none in MCC) and it is questionable as to whether the new centres (VMC, Markham) will see sustained office development after the initial burst of activity (which the 416 centres and MCC all had to start off).

AoD

Quite a bit of office space developed in North York Centre, but not really anything in the last 10 years. The last major building completed was finished in 2007, I believe. The amount projected there is also much higher than what was built, though those projections were rather insane, with nearly as much office space projected for NYCC as downtown at the time. Regardless there is several million square feet in NYCC, far more than any of the other centres. Coincidentally the Yogne line is also our busiest subway line..

 

[44 North]

Isn't one of the biggest problems with SC right now that their district plans are incomplete, almost entirely due to the indecision re: Sheppard transit. I definitely don't think a Line 4 extension would be what brings development, far from it. But that some decision needs to be made so the secondary/precinct plans can be finalized. There was a +20yr span where it was to be a Sheppard Subway, then a few years where it was SELRT, then the present situation of something (but nobody knows what). Whether it's a heavy subway, light subway, LRT, or buses - once that decision is made the secondary plans can be finalized and a few more condos will fill in the blocks. At least that's my take on things.

And at the end of the day the area still seems decent for a suburban downtown in the middle of nowhere, and definitely has the ingredients. Major mall, large and attractive civic building, office towers, condos, institutions, schools, large #s of transit users. That's a lot better than other downtowns, and goes to show an area doesn't need a Line 1, 2, or 4 connection to spur something.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Not only 416 - pretty much all the centres identified in the plans saw little to no new office development (none in Islington/Kipling; none in NYCC, none in SCC, none in Y+E and Y+St. Clair; none in MCC) and it is questionable as to whether the new centres (VMC, Markham) will see sustained office development after the initial burst of activity (which the 416 centres and MCC all had to start off).

AoD

And this has lead to a situation where people don't even consider working in those places. It's either Burlington, Markham, Oshawa or Downtown.

 

[Hopkins123]

Strange that Mississauga City Centre is a success in spite of having had nothing but buses serving it all these years, but Scarborough City Centre allegedly cannot succeed even with a subway extension.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Strange that Mississauga City Centre is a success in spite of having had nothing but buses serving it all these years, but Scarborough City Centre allegedly cannot succeed even with a subway extension.

Because a) it isn't much of an office node, its all residential at this point, b) Square One, c) 403 and d) tons of parking

AoD

 

[11th]

Because a) it isn't much of an office node, its all residential at this point, b) Square One, c) 403 and d) tons of parking

AoD

I'd also add e) Hurontario (the "Yonge" of Peel Region), f) it's not Toronto.

 

[11th]

Quite a bit of office space developed in North York Centre, but not really anything in the last 10 years. The last major building completed was finished in 2007, I believe. The amount projected there is also much higher than what was built, though those projections were rather insane, with nearly as much office space projected for NYCC as downtown at the time. Regardless there is several million square feet in NYCC, far more than any of the other centres. Coincidentally the Yonge line is also our busiest subway line..

One may wonder what if North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke were still independent cities during the 2000s office construction boom...
How different their "downtown" would have turned out.

 

[OneCity]

I'm surprised you haven't blamed the downtown media for that one too.

I don't disagree about its unfortunate location (aside that it's right next to the GO line), but that's hindsight. The decision was made at the time that Kennedy was going to be a transportation hub, not a development hub. Public realm and foot traffic to the station was an afterthought compared to cramming a bunch of parking lots where land was conveniently available, and where the hydro corridor wasn't in the way of construction. Just build a bunch of access roads and a drop-off area, put in a large bus terminal and that was considered good enough to serve it's transportation purpose.

Perhaps you could elaborate, but I don't see how a developer could "change that" without relocating the entire station including the subway platform. It is what it is. I hope efforts will be make to beautify the station's surroundings and make it more pedestrian friendly as much as possible. Maybe the Crosstown will help make that happen.

View attachment 96312

I was imagining was a condo fronting Eglinton or Kennedy or both with a tunneled entrance underneath to the subway station. That way it could be much more pedestrian friendly with the LRT transfers.

*Please don't troll, or bait. Lets just not derail the discussion.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

One may wonder what if North York, Scarborough and Etobicoke were still independent cities during the 2000s office construction boom...
How different their "downtown" would have turned out.

Good chance nothing at all - there was pretty much no office development in MCC post 92 - and that's with lower property taxes. If my memory holds, it is all office parks in the GTA and it stayed that way till the mid-2000s (maybe there is a bit of Two Kings industrial/warehouse to office conversion going as well?)

AoD

 

[OneCity]

The Line 1 extension into Vaughan will have a "large" 1,850 vehicle parking lot at Pioneer Village Subway Station. At 1.3 people per vehicle, that's enough for 2,405 passengers, who might take the Line 1 extension. At a crush load at 1,458 per subway train, that's enough "extra" passengers for two (2) trains.

If they put in a similar parking lot at SCC, it would be very attractive for those who take the 401 to the Scarborough Town Centre Station or vicinity. Enough for a whole two trains.

SCC will be a busy stop as it is. Would you like them to fill up all the trains anyway?

I was responding to the question regarding SCC's geographic location. People will have great access to be able to drive to the 905 or have great transit into the City's job core. Nothing wrong with the location

I read somewhere that SCC is about to go 10 years without any project completions. I don't consider that to be developing well.

All proposals have been put on hold. An RT that ran its course and transit uncertainty will do that. It had done really well previously but considering the lack of priority to make this a vibrant area since amalgamation. The subway will be huge in helping alleviating the major issues regarding transit.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I read somewhere that SCC is about to go 10 years without any project completions. I don't consider that to be developing well.

That might have been me. The last building was finished in 2011 I believe, and although there is some new stuff proposed right now, it likely won't finish until 2021 at least, so 10 years. Like at Vaughan centre though, I expect it will pick up in a few years as the subway nears completion.

 

[Tuck]

The STC will become a viable spot if the local councillors put in the effort to make it so. It is not up to the TTC to do that, though the subway will act in a supporting role.