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Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

DSC said:
No, I think it's the politicians who worry about (supposedly) 'lost revenue" - of course I think the bureaucrats have grossly over-estimated the 'cost' at $20 million.
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There is some lost time having timed transfers which have to be acknowledged. Jumping on the streetcar/bus to go 1 or 2 stops (if its nearby) does slow down the system. Lost time means more streetcars required (and more $$ spent).

There is also lost revenue. We just don't know how much it is. On the way home I do stop by the grocery store and then get back on the subway about once every other week (grocery store is 3 subway stops from home...the proverbial milk run which is too heavy to walk 25 minutes with). So $3 x 26 = $78 lost from me each year with a 2 hour timed transfer.

Having a small fee ($0.25) for all transfers would make people second guess the short commute (but would permit the transfer for a slightly longer trip).
 
muller877 said:
There is some lost time having timed transfers which have to be acknowledged. Jumping on the streetcar/bus to go 1 or 2 stops (if its nearby) does slow down the system. Lost time means more streetcars required (and more $$ spent).

There is also lost revenue. We just don't know how much it is. On the way home I do stop by the grocery store and then get back on the subway about once every other week (grocery store is 3 subway stops from home...the proverbial milk run which is too heavy to walk 25 minutes with). So $3 x 26 = $78 lost from me each year with a 2 hour timed transfer.

Having a small fee ($0.25) for all transfers would make people second guess the short commute (but would permit the transfer for a slightly longer trip).
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If you tapped on, hopped off the streetcar for five minutes for an errand and then hopped on the next streetcar without tapping a second time there is no way you'd get caught.
 
animatronic said:
If you tapped on, hopped off the streetcar for five minutes for an errand and then hopped on the next streetcar without tapping a second time there is no way you'd get caught.
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You most certainly would if fare inspectors boarded, as when you tap your card on the fare inspector's reader the vehicle number of the tap pops up on their screen. If that number doesn't match the vehicle you're on, you get fined, unless your vehicle was short turned.
 
Still don't get why anyone who uses the TTC as their everyday transportation would use Presto. You could easily end up paying more than the cost of a Metropass. Why don't they make Presto have a limit of amount taken out every month on TTC trips that maxes out at the Metropass fare?
 
ssiguy2 said:
Still don't get why anyone who uses the TTC as their everyday transportation would use Presto. You could easily end up paying more than the cost of a Metropass. Why don't they make Presto have a limit of amount taken out every month on TTC trips that maxes out at the Metropass fare?
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This has been addressed hundreds of times by official sources, let alone discussion here and elsewhere. Presto has not been fully rolled out on the TTC. If you take more than however many rides in a given month, it becomes more economical to purchase a metropass. Presto is not currently intended to replace a Metropass. "You could easily end up paying more than the cost of a Metropass" - yes, the exact same is true of tokens/tickets or the cash fare, this isn't a new development.

Next year physical metropasses will be discontinued, however before then you will be able to purchase a "digital metropass" that is loaded onto your Presto card, as with other transit agencies like YRT and OCTranspo. However, as I said, presto has not been fully rolled out on the TTC, its deployment is in progress, i.e. not complete, i.e. some things are not available yet. While I feel that the rollout has taken much longer than necessary, keep in mind that the TTC is a very large system, if you think they're having problems with Presto now imagine if they tried to flip a switch one night and have everything go from 0% presto to 100% presto instantly.

As for "Why don't they make Presto have a limit of amount taken out every month on TTC trips that maxes out at the Metropass fare?" there are two ways to do monthly passes--the way you described, which is what GO uses, and loading a digital "metropass" onto the card/paying up front for it, which is what most transit agencies e.g. YRT, OCTranspo, and soon the TTC will be doing. Why? Various reasons have been postulated--likely, the TTC views this as a useful cash float since they get money up front for rides that are taken later on, and as a way to make money because some people will end up paying for a pass but not taking that many trips, or some might end up not buying a pass but taking so many trips that they pay more than a pass. Switching to capping for monthly ridership, while great from a rider perspective, would undeniably be a small, but not insignificant, loss of revenue for the TTC, which given their constant state of financial starvation simply is not feasible in the foreseeable future.
 
animatronic said:
If you tapped on, hopped off the streetcar for five minutes for an errand and then hopped on the next streetcar without tapping a second time there is no way you'd get caught.
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I've been surprised to enter the back doors, and discover a fare inspector inside (not a problem, Metropass in pocket). Not sure how you'd explain not tapping, especially if not at a transfer spot.
 
Megaton327 said:
You most certainly would if fare inspectors boarded, as when you tap your card on the fare inspector's reader the vehicle number of the tap pops up on their screen. If that number doesn't match the vehicle you're on, you get fined, unless your vehicle was short turned.
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Good to know!
 
Megaton327 said:
You most certainly would if fare inspectors boarded, as when you tap your card on the fare inspector's reader the vehicle number of the tap pops up on their screen. If that number doesn't match the vehicle you're on, you get fined, unless your vehicle was short turned.
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So fare inspectors do have personal machines to check Presto Cards? That's good. But how much can these machines do? Is it just the card number and bus number, or can it show time, location, route?
 
Leo_Chan said:
So fare inspectors do have personal machines to check Presto Cards? That's good. But how much can these machines do? Is it just the card number and bus number, or can it show time, location, route?
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I've gotten a good look at the UPX readers when getting my card checked and have seen a photo somewhere online of the TTC ones, which are very similar. I believe it shows all of the necessary information at a glance for a fare inspection--firstly, there is generally a large green checkmark or a red X to indicate at a glance if the fare appears to have been paid properly. For one thing, I believe fare inspectors program the vehicle number when they board or see it arrive at the station, so that they don't have to manually check the vehicle number by eye every tap. The check/X would basically indicate if the customer has paid a fare (including a transfer) on the programmed vehicle number within the last 2 hours.

I think it shows vehicle number, time, location (if recorded), and fare category. Fare category pops up the largest alongside the check/X.

They can also query your card's full registration details and transaction history--there are some recorded cases where a regular GO commuter forgot to tap and got caught by a fare inspector, who then checked and saw they normally paid twice every day for a long time, and let them off with a warning, as they should.
 
Megaton327 said:
I've gotten a good look at the UPX readers when getting my card checked and have seen a photo somewhere online of the TTC ones, which are very similar. I believe it shows all of the necessary information at a glance for a fare inspection--firstly, there is generally a large green checkmark or a red X to indicate at a glance if the fare appears to have been paid properly. For one thing, I believe fare inspectors program the vehicle number when they board or see it arrive at the station, so that they don't have to manually check the vehicle number by eye every tap. The check/X would basically indicate if the customer has paid a fare (including a transfer) on the programmed vehicle number within the last 2 hours.

I think it shows vehicle number, time, location (if recorded), and fare category. Fare category pops up the largest alongside the check/X.

They can also query your card's full registration details and transaction history--there are some recorded cases where a regular GO commuter forgot to tap and got caught by a fare inspector, who then checked and saw they normally paid twice every day for a long time, and let them off with a warning, as they should.
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As always, GO gets it done better than TTC. I hope this changes in a few months/years where they're at the same level.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Maybe the TTC should do a video on what the fare inspector see and do with their Presto card reader, and what they look for with students and seniors?
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I'm not sure what they need a video for. What fare inspectors can see and do is check that you've paid your fare, and when/where/how you paid it, and view other information on your card. What they look for with students and seniors has long been available at http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Seniors_students_and_children/index.jsp - seniors need to carry valid Photo ID with proof that they're 65 years of age or older, students 13-15 don't need ID, and students 16-19 need to carry EITHER valid photo ID with proof of age OR a high school student ID.
 
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