News   Apr 25, 2024
 93     0 
News   Apr 25, 2024
 370     0 
News   Apr 24, 2024
 1.3K     1 

Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

Actually how I interpreted that question was referencing an app that can use NFC to read the balance off the physical card in real-time, in addition to having online account capabilities. That way you'd get the live balance without having to wait at all. But somehow I don't see that happening if it's taking this long for them to even put out a mobile app for the existing website-based functionality...

And even with a 24-hour delay I'd find a Presto mobile app very useful.
To do what you ask would take a sophisticated piece of hardware. Not only that, ostensibly it's encrypted...at least I'd hope so!
[...]
RFID Readers
rfid-readers.png

An RFID reader, also known as an interrogator, is a device that provides the connection between the tag data and the enterprise system software that needs the information. The reader communicates with tags that are within its field of operation, performing any number of tasks including simple continuous inventorying, filtering (searching for tags that meet certain criteria), writing (or encoding) to selected tags, etc.

The reader uses an attached antenna to capture data from tags. It then passes the data to a computer for processing. Just like RFID tags, there are many different sizes and types of RFID readers. Readers can be affixed in a stationary position in a store or factory, or integrated into a mobile device such as a portable, handheld scanner. Readers can also be embedded in electronic equipment or devices, and in vehicles.[...]
http://www.impinj.com/resources/about-rfid/how-do-rfid-systems-work/

RFID Skimming and Cloning Attacks on Presto Cards
Chris Weber
1
(100216595), Azhar Saiyed
2
(100464089), Maaz Kamani
3
(100453151), Pirasanth
Sivalingam
4
(100460273)
Faculty of Business and IT
,
University
of Ontario Institute of Technology
, Canada
1
Christopher.weber@uoit.net,
2
Azhar.saiyed@uoit.net,
3
Maaz.kamani@uoit.net,
4
Pirasanth.sivalingam@uoit.net
Abstract
These days RFID chips are being implemented in
everything within our daily lives w
hether it be in
items which we buy in store, our cell phones,
credit cards and transit cards and everything
else
in between. With this widespread implementation
comes another avenue for hackers to potentially
gain access in to our lives. This paper explores
RFID skimming and cloning attacks related to the
Presto transit card. We take a look at the RFID
chip i
mplemented within the presto card and the
potential for a malicious user to skim data from
this card using an RFID reader. We also look at
the potential of said attacker to be able to clone
our Presto card if they did obtain information
from our card. Fi
nally we propose a couple of
solutions to the findings of these security
vulnerabilities including the use of a PKI system
with the Presto cards.
Keywords
-
RFID, skimming,
cloning
, Presto [...]
http://chrisweber.me/wp-content/upl...mming-and-Cloning-Attacks-on-Presto-Cards.pdf
 
I don't think any phones are capable of doing that.

To do what you ask would take a sophisticated piece of hardware. Not only that, ostensibly it's encrypted...at least I'd hope so!

http://www.impinj.com/resources/about-rfid/how-do-rfid-systems-work/


http://chrisweber.me/wp-content/upl...mming-and-Cloning-Attacks-on-Presto-Cards.pdf

Actually yes, many modern smartphones are capable of doing that; and no, you most certainly don't need a "sophisticated piece of hardware" (beyond a phone) to do it. Hardware-wise there's no problem, many modern Android phones and all current iPhones have the NFC/RFID chip necessary to access a Presto card. Android phones have supported it for years. Software wise, it's as simple as that Presto would need to release a Presto app for Android that is capable of reading the card. They need to write the app, put it out, then people download it and those with NFC phones benefit from live reads of card balance.

As for iPhones, unfortunately at present it's not possible because Apple is not currently supporting NFC/RFID on the iPhone for anything other than Debit and Credit cards. However, they are moving towards implementing that soon for store rewards cards (some department stores, pharmacies, and grocery stores in the US, as well as Starbucks, are slated to potentially become NFC-enabled on the iPhone soon-ish). It will only be through Apple's Wallet app for now, so with Presto this would actually take the form of loading your Presto card into Wallet and tapping your phone to pay rather than your actual Presto card...but that would work just fine as the phone would naturally know the balance of "its Presto card". In the future it is possible that they will even open it up to third party apps like Android, but not guaranteed...and, at any rate, Presto being addable to Wallet would almost inarguably be better.
 
Actually yes, many modern smartphones are capable of doing that; and no, you most certainly don't need a "sophisticated piece of hardware" (beyond a phone) to do it. Hardware-wise there's no problem, many modern Android phones and all current iPhones have the NFC/RFID chip necessary to access a Presto card. Android phones have supported it for years. Software wise, it's as simple as that Presto would need to release a Presto app for Android that is capable of reading the card. They need to write the app, put it out, then people download it and those with NFC phones benefit from live reads of card balance.

As for iPhones, unfortunately at present it's not possible because Apple is not currently supporting NFC/RFID on the iPhone for anything other than Debit and Credit cards. However, they are moving towards implementing that soon for store rewards cards (some department stores, pharmacies, and grocery stores in the US, as well as Starbucks, are slated to potentially become NFC-enabled on the iPhone soon-ish). It will only be through Apple's Wallet app for now, so with Presto this would actually take the form of loading your Presto card into Wallet and tapping your phone to pay rather than your actual Presto card...but that would work just fine as the phone would naturally know the balance of "its Presto card". In the future it is possible that they will even open it up to third party apps like Android, but not guaranteed...and, at any rate, Presto being addable to Wallet would almost inarguably be better.
Reference please....

You need to use a Presto machine. Unless you have an externally programmed RFID chip, the correct 'aperture' (antenna) the codecs and an App to run it all. Accessing a Presto card is a lot more of a challenge than other simple to interrogate RFIDs.

You can query the website though:
blbBYrEvdGbEBQfc9KoQOE2f9yRfKv62F0IjFJdVBsJUDu4qYHXXVeoh0RVarWE4LHY=w300


PRESTO Lookup

740
Eric Fung Transportation


VXUxjPIKMfmV4MYuB7FUE8mqkA0O3JWDOf4-1H91XTK2fwlj2iWyeMS_tzR-s8LmsQ=h310
P2b8QmyAdnltLIPcOu9SF-mB5ryZIPcd8UIhUuZQkUe70TYHaPGl_3JywKkJ_3wa=h310
bP_c86c4Oi4Dx1suAmDTGHJX8KB7SXeMvdzb2XxjDDBEPs3xt9Yf5if3qLlRi8gXd0Q=h310
3Ao3Y0_0e6-gNjDKrfN_HV4MalavaXDjRxJvBiY7NSjk3E_MTV_f_Ro7pJCcDILSokYd=h310
oHO9Vogm4QPqZfOidGHhFFqhZYn-9BZTEoztsNSkCIhG8HnzjPTzG_SpjGMcjxIQZAM=h310
Vg1CS1MhqQHhAfzncbgUz8ciRdW8wpu4XlcH-ezBbFvmSRs1bklC-XEio8rsMY_5KDc=h310

This app works by querying the PRESTO website and displaying the information in an easy-to-read format.
• Supports GTA and Ottawa region cards, both registered and anonymous
• Displays recent transaction history
• Remembers the last tapped card and can refresh without card present
• Multiple cards can be used with one device. Handy to allow someone else to check their balance from your device.

KNOWN ISSUES
• This app only displays what the PRESTO website displays. It may not reflect your immediate balance.
• Registered accounts with MORE than one card added will NOT work. This will not be fixed anytime soon.

Please leave feedback and feature requests from within the app, by tapping the Info icon or menu item, and scrolling to the Feedback section.

This app is NOT affiliated in any way with, nor endorsed by Accenture, Metrolinx, Brampton Transit, Burlington Transit, Durham Region Transit, GO Transit, Hamilton Street Railway, MiWay (Mississauga Transit), Oakville Transit, OC Transpo, Toronto Transit Commission, or York Region Transit.
[...]
What's New
Version 1.23 (2014-06-13)
* Negative balances now use minus symbol instead of parentheses in non-French locales
* Fixes transaction history not showing when locale is French
* Transaction history now shows last 3 months again
Version 1.22 (2014-01-16)
• Fixes Ottawa transaction history after Jan 2014 PRESTO website *upgrade*
Version 1.2 (2014-01-14)
• Fixes balance after Jan 2014 PRESTO website "upgrade"

Additional information
Updated
June 13, 2014
Size
507k
Installs
50,000 - 100,000
Current Version
1.23
Requires Android
3.0 and up
Content Rating
Everyone
Learn more
Permissions
Report
Flag as inappropriate
Offered By
Eric Fung
Developer
Email prestolookupapp@gmail.com
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.bitbucket.efung.prestoreader&hl=en

As to the encryption on Presto cards:
[...]
In the field of computer security, AES is known
to be the most secure form of encryption and has
never been cracked. AES uses 128 length keys to
encrypt data which
means there are 3.4 x 10
38
possible key combinations. In order to perform a
brute force on the Presto cards that use the EV1
chipset it would take billions of years to crack. For
this reason it is simply not feasible or possible to
crack the security of
these new Presto cards.
[...]
http://chrisweber.me/wp-content/upl...mming-and-Cloning-Attacks-on-Presto-Cards.pdf
 
Last edited:
They have gotten rid of that on the new TTC Presto readers, and this has been a huge source of displeasure to the public judging by twitter, and some on this forum. The TTC has indicated they will not be bringing it back. They have no legitimate reason for doing this.

You can check your balance using the self-serve reload machines in many subway stations--just put your card in, it'll show you your balance, if you don't want to reload just press 'done' and remove your card. In the future, those machines will be at every subway station.

Your options are either that, or using the website (or using another transit agency--GO has balance checkers at its train stations, and every other Presto transit agency in Ontario shows balance when you tap--GO, YRT/Viva, Brampton, MiWay, HSR, etc), but note the website does not necessarily update until 24 hours since a tap, so the balance shown there may be out of date. A couple of other alternatives are visiting TTC customer service at Davisville where they can query a Presto card, or when you pay your fare on the new streetcars and tap the cash fare machine for a paper transfer from your Presto card, those will actually show your balance on the screen while printing a transfer.

You can also set up autoload on the Presto website, which will use your bank account or credit card to automatically load a given amount onto your card whenever it drops below a certain amount. Autoloads happen instantaneously, whenever you tap and your balance is low it'll top up your card, theoretically preventing it from ever running out of money and being declined, but only reloading it when necessary according to what you specify.
Thanks
 
Reference please....

You need to use a Presto machine. Unless you have an externally programmed RFID chip, the correct 'aperture' (antenna) the codecs and an App to run it all. Accessing a Presto card is a lot more of a challenge than other simple to interrogate RFIDs.

You can query the website though:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.bitbucket.efung.prestoreader&hl=en

As to the encryption on Presto cards:

http://chrisweber.me/wp-content/upl...mming-and-Cloning-Attacks-on-Presto-Cards.pdf

What are you on about? Your own link "as to the encryption on Presto cards" clearly states that they are readable by smartphones. Obviously they are encrypted and not user-readable, that is why my comment clearly described that Metrolinx would need to put out a Presto app capable of reading the cards. Since they make the cards, obviously if they wanted to make a smartphone app to read balances, they could. After all, that is exactly how UPX and TTC fare inspection works, they have a Presto-querying app on a Motorola smartphone running Android.

But, as you said "Reference please..." okay: go ride the TTC or UPX with a Presto card, and have your fare inspected. There's your reference.
 
What are you on about? Your own link "as to the encryption on Presto cards" clearly states that they are readable by smartphones. Obviously they are encrypted and not user-readable, that is why my comment clearly described that Metrolinx would need to put out a Presto app capable of reading the cards. Since they make the cards, obviously if they wanted to make a smartphone app to read balances, they could. After all, that is exactly how UPX and TTC fare inspection works, they have a Presto-querying app on a Motorola smartphone running Android.

But, as you said "Reference please..." okay: go ride the TTC or UPX with a Presto card, and have your fare inspected. There's your reference.
From this forum:
Yep. The older units that I believe GO and certainly OCTranspo use are the Handheld Nautiz X5, and the newer units that the TTC has are the Symbol/Motorola Solutions/Zebra TC 55. The TC55 runs Android, so theoretically they could use any capabe NFC android phone going forward, but the TC55 is an enterprise device.

http://www.handheldgroup.com/rugged-computer/handheld-pda/nautiz-x5/
https://www.zebra.com/us/en/products/mobile-computers/handheld/TC55/tc55-spec-sheet.html
Since those links are now dead, here are the specs:
Nautiz X5 – Specs | Lautech Inc.
www.lautechgroup.com/nautizx5-specs
The Nautiz X5 brings together the latest features and technology to deliver a mobile handheld device that does it all, and does it well.
Zebra TC-55:
BOOST EFFICIENCY AND CUSTOMER SERVICE WITH THE TC55
Your workers need rugged, reliable, remote access to real-time data to get the job done. While personal smartphones, tablets and laptops may be attractive and easy to use, they don't have the durability or functionality necessary for everyday business use.

The pocket-sized, all-touch TC55 Touch Computer has it all. The TC55 capitalizes on the latest technological advancements, aesthetic appeal and usability of popular personal devices. But unlike its consumer-grade counterparts, it has integrated data capture capabilities.

The TC55 is built to withstand the wear and tear of industrial environments, so it’s less likely to fail in the field. Fewer failures mean less downtime, and most importantly, higher productivity and profitability.

How-to-videos, manuals, and drivers
TC55 Touch Computer Support
EXTEND THE FUNCTIONALITY OF YOUR MOBILE DEVICE
Mobile Computer Accessories
https://www.zebra.com/us/en/products/mobile-computers/handheld/TC55.html

They're not "smartphones". They're PDAs. Could a "smart-phone" running compatible software interrogate Presto cards? Possibly, but these devices have the right hardware as well as software to do it, and they still struggle at times.

The TTC fare inspectors are most certainly given smartphones that read presto fares. Some of them choose not to use it because apparently the units have technical issues (one of them told me this) and can take a very long time to set up and check a fare.

I've been inspected twice since POP came to the 509, one time the inspector did take out the phone and try to read my card but his device didn't work, the other time the inspector did check my fare properly.
Do you stand by this claim?
 
Last edited:
Quote from Crazytrain:
Tyson Moore said...

Your Presto card, like your credit cards, uses an ISO standard 13.56 MHz RFID technology. If you have a PayPass/PayWave card, you can tap it against your phone and it should produce the same response.

Unfortunately, implementing something like Presto on a mobile device is much more difficult than a credit card for three reasons: security, compatibility and synchronization.

Security

Basic RFID cards (Prox, for example) just spit out a unique string. Cards like MIFARE Classic allow near-instant reading and writing to the card, but still retain their unique serial number.

The Presto card goes one step further, and runs a (surprisingly complex) processor that accelerates cryptographic operations; these cards are MIFARE DESFire (DES standing for Data Encryption Standard, which is a misnomer because some Presto cards actually uses AES). This means that each file on the card is protected by one or more keys, required to read or change the card's data.

If - as some people are suggesting - one's phone was able to update their Presto card, the keys would have to be distributed with the app. If somebody was to discover this key (which is not difficult to do, see Snapchat), they would essentially be allowed free reign over the card, and could process false transactions, etc.

Compatibility

The iOS NFC API has not been exposed to developers; this makes an iOS app a non-starter. Android 4.4 has enabled card emulation in the NFC API, but DESFire isn't standards-compliant. Any support of NFC-based Presto usage would almost certainly require a firmware update for the Presto readers. Can you imagine all the hours of development and QA work involved? I'd rather stick with what we've got than face another fare increase.

Synchronization

Presto is a decentralized system; the fare payment devices update periodically. Having to tap your Presto card against your phone to synchronize them would eliminate the benefit of NFC. The credit card companies overcame this by issuing tokens instead of the actual card number; the tokens can be issued and revoked arbitrarily with no effect on the card itself.

Of course, credit card processing is online; the credit card terminal authorizes the payment immediately. This is simply not possible without a huge infrastructure change to the entire Presto system. There's a reason some other cities have not done this: it becomes prohibitively expensive and opens a whole new can of worms.

It's worth noting at this point that there's a convenience issue to this as well: what if your phone's battery dies during a trip? What if you have to factory reset it? What if you accidentally wipe the secure credential store, or if you delete the Presto app? Your card goes into underpayment (or disappears entirely), and I don't need to explain the kind of pain that causes.

--

To conclude this novel of a comment, it would certainly be possible to use NFC for payments, but the current technological restrictions make it unfeasible at the present time. I hear and see complaints all the time of having to wait for cards to load, but it's a necessary evil of the decentralized system. It's even worse in London: you have to nominate a station to have your load/refund processed at; that information doesn't propagate through the Oyster network.

While I'm hopeful for the future, I certainly don't want my tax dollars being spent to solve these problems unnecessarily. Sure, it would be nice not to have to carry a Presto card, but have we eschewed physical credit cards for Apple Pay/Google Wallet? As long as the answer to that question is "no", I doubt we'll have phone-based Presto cards.

And if anybody from Metrolinx reads this, I'm a student looking for a co-op job :)

January 27, 2015 at 12:42 PM
http://www.thiscrazytrain.com/2015/01/my-phone-and-my-presto-card-wwere.html
 
From this forum:

Since those links are now dead, here are the specs:

Zebra TC-55:

https://www.zebra.com/us/en/products/mobile-computers/handheld/TC55.html

They're not "smartphones". They're PDAs. Could a "smart-phone" running compatible software interrogate Presto cards? Possibly, but these devices have the right hardware as well as software to do it, and they still struggle at times.


Do you stand by this claim?

BREAKING NEWS: TECHNOLOGICAL DEVICE HAS TECHNICAL GLITCH. ALSO, TTC FARE INSPECTORS MAY SOMETIMES BE LAZY. 'STEVEINTORONTO' DENIES POSSIBILITY OF THIS EVER HAPPENING. UNIVERSE IMPLODES.

It's worked plenty of other times. But, okay, I'll humour you, on UPX it has worked every time. Go ride the UPX, then. Or just keep obstinately arguing when you know you're wrong and all of your own sources contradict what you're saying.
 
This Presto system costs $1 Billion to create, electronic fare collection via Presto more than cash fares to collect (which naturally means that transit riders will suffer through poorer transit service to maintain the Presto system), and Metrolinx still can't get this thing running reliably after 10 years. Yet another example of the province forcing substandard solutions on us, with aspirations of selling the technology internationally (ahem... ICTS). I know some people will defend Presto to death, but nothing about Metrolinx's and the Province's handling of this looks good.
 
Last edited:
This Presto system costs $1 Billion to create, electronic fare collection via Presto more than cash fares to collect (which naturally means that transit riders will suffer through poorer transit service to maintain the Presto system), and Metrolinx still can't get this thing running reliably after 10 years. Yet another example of the province forcing substandard solutions on us, with aspirations of selling the technology internationally (ahem... ICTS). I know some people will defend Presto to death, but nothing about Metrolinx's and the Province's handling of this looks good.

I've thought about the comparison with ICTS as well, and yes I think it's partially apt. But at the same time I feel the ICTS plan (as well as its counterpart GO-ALRT) was a bit more innovative and... altruistic? The GTA needed (and still needs, really) a transit remedy that offers the speed and efficiency of conventional heavy rail subways, but naturally for less than the $500M/km going rate. Ditto for a commuter rail network that offers higher speeds/acceleration/frequency than what is offered today. This is where GO-Urban (i.e ICTS) and GO-ALRT really derived. The use of a standalone propriety system for GO-Urban is debatable as to how wise it was, and though I'm not very smart when it comes to physics, I do believe the Linear Induction Motor technology can work extremely well. When it does work.

And it's easy to point to the SRT as a full on failure, and that LRVs would've been more suitable. But I think those are two separate issues.

One, the SRT is the very first installation of the system for the public - and over 30yrs later it's still running those very same vehicles. Whether it was ICTS or some other brand new system, there would certainly be problems in that situation.​

Two, would LRVs have been the right choice? Initially the line was to have some sections crossing at street level (thereby requiring an LRT). But later studies by the TTC showed that ridership was to be too high and that we needed to remove the portions crossing at-grade. So in other words the requirement for LRVs (a small but very hefty vehicle specifically designed/built for street-running segments) was no longer required. Really it'd make no sense to use hefty LRVs riding on structures built to handle their massive weight when the line would be 100% grade-separated (*there are some present-day parallels with the worthiness of the Transit City S(L)RT plan btw). In this instance it's arguably very logical to delve into subway/metro territory (i.e rail lines that at no point travel on streets, using more efficient vehicles designed not to travel on street). Would 6-car subways make sense? Not really. Too long, too wide, too costly to run. What else is there? How about shorter and narrower subways that theoretically could travel more efficiently, and are most optimal in a more suburban setting. This is where we get into light subway/metros. The idea wasn't common at the time, but IMO the Prov/UTDC was ahead of things for crafting it for this particular situation.​

So yes, it's easy to point to ICTS as a failure, particularly when looking at the very first example (the SRT). But had we given the system a little TLC over the years, and possibly expanded it to other areas of Toronto/GTA, we may've been happy with the result. Look at Vancouver. They're now on their third generation of vehicles (using the same LIM technology), and they're finishing up yet another extension of the system. Sorry for the o/t rant, and I'm not even sure how this relates to Presto anymore.

*Edit, I recall my train of thought now. How I'd say ICTS differs from Presto is that the current Prov gov't could've easily bought an off-the-shelf fare system...seeing that it's the 21st C and these are in use in many cities. Instead they went solo. However in the 1970s and early 80s the concept of a light subway/metro was a fresh idea. Systems were either conventional heavy rail subways or streetcar/LRT (with oddball ideas in between like monorails and PRT). So I'd argue that the choice they made to go solo and pioneer a system that appropriately filled the niche between subway and LRT was more logical.
 
Last edited:
FWIW, the TTC has confirmed that if a reader is down, you should be let on anyway.

Unfortunately the majority of TTC drivers seem to either not know about this policy, or not to care. Most of the time I've been on a vehicle with a broken reader the driver has refused to let me board. Checking tweets directed to @ttchelps and @bradttc indicated this is a very common problem.

It's great that this is the policy--it absolutely should be--but policies are irrelevant when they don't bother to a) train their drivers or b) punish drivers who violate the policy.
 

Back
Top