TOareaFan
Superstar
yes you did...sorry.
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Megaton327
Senior Member
I have to disagree on that suggestion...I think debit/credit should most definitely remain the same as cash. Logically speaking, if it were to differ, it should be more than cash actually, due to processing fees/equipments costs/etc. (albeit to a very small degree). Not sure where the logic would be in having it be less than cash, though, especially given that there's currently a $0.20 price difference for adults between presto and cash...and a $0.05 difference for seniors/students! Visitors and rare users use cash/debit/credit, locals and more frequent users get a presto card for a one-time $6 fee and pay less on account of frequent use/using a transit-dedicated payment method with (presumably) lower point-of-use fees to the TTC than credit/debit/cash.
TOareaFan
Superstar
you would, I guess, have to figure out if the transaction fee from the credit/debit company was greater or less than the cash handling fees that the TTC has.
Megaton327
Senior Member
Even so, there isn't much margin for it. Adult $2.80 presto/token, $2.90 or $2.95 credit/debit, $3.00 cash? Senior/student $1.95 presto and $2.00 cash, then what, $1.98 credit/debit? "Splitting hairs" comes to mind as an apt descriptor of this.
Also, with the TTC we've been seeing an increase in them pushing for solutions that they see as being simpler for customers--take, for instance, the earlier plan to activate CLRV/ALRV presto readers this month where equipped changing into a plan to not activate any of them until all are ready to go on at once. Or the move from having the Presto readers on the new streetcars be where you make your debit/credit payments, to keeping those exclusively for presto payment and moving debit/credit to SRVMs. I don't see them further splitting their fare table, especially when tap-to-pay credit/debit reloading of presto can be done at all of those very nice, shiny, fancy new self-serve presto reload kiosks they're deploying in a huge push throughout the system--I'm sure their view, and frankly this is one of the few that makes sense where the TTC is concerned, is that debit/credit customers can get a presto card for a one-time $6 fee, then use debit/credit to reload it at those if they're a frequent rider.
nfitz
Superstar
You'd almost want to make cash a penalty fare, to discourage people from putting it in the box. The handling of the cash is surely the most expensive option.
Where did you hear that? The most recent CEOs report (November 23, 2015) says they will activate in December when the installation work has been completed for the MAJORITY of the streetcars, and that ALL will be enabled prior to the end of 2015. That implies that the plan itself hasn't changed, however the turn-on date has slipped from the end of November by a few days.
Though I'm sure it's still a work in progress. No contractor ever seems to hit a deadline for a simple plumbing job these days - let alone a unique retrofit like this.
Catenary
Active Member
Paying with credit/debit at the streetcar door hasn't been moved, its never been planned to happen before 2017. Forcing customers who want to pay with credit/debit to either buy and load a PRESTO card or obtain a transfer from a SRVM are the only options right now since the PRESTO system currently doesn't support credit/debit.
muller877
Senior Member
You're right...cash should be a premium service. But there are always concerns that the most needy in society cannot afford a bank account nor the funds to prepay for Presto (I disagree but that's what we always hear). Cash will be an expensive fixture in our transit options until this misconception disappears.
Most transit authorities make you go through an extra step to use cash to reduce the cost of cash and/or decrease the usage. Like going to a machine to load up a disposable card and then going to the turnstile to use the card. The cost of the transaction has decreased since there is less human interaction, it is harder to steal the cash and it incentivises the user to buy multiple rides at once (so they don't repeat the same step).
Instead of our discounted fare system I'm inclined to prefer the way in NYC. Pay for 7 rides ($21) and get a $1.40 credit. So the first 7 rides you still have to pay $3. But the credit is carried forward and can be used if you use transit regularly. Basically acts like coffee stamps...the 16th ride is free.
NotMathematical
Active Member
Some new updates regarding PRESTO on TTC.
-Faregate field trials will begin @ Main Street Station in Q1 2016
-Bus roll out would be implemented by bus depot, and would be implemented throughout 2016.
-23/26 PRESTO enabled stations, would have SSKs by the end of the year.
More information here:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...151203_BoardMtg_PRESTO_Progress_Update_EN.pdf
-Faregate field trials will begin @ Main Street Station in Q1 2016
-Bus roll out would be implemented by bus depot, and would be implemented throughout 2016.
-23/26 PRESTO enabled stations, would have SSKs by the end of the year.
More information here:
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...151203_BoardMtg_PRESTO_Progress_Update_EN.pdf
Andy T
Active Member
All door boarding is starting December 14 so it's safe to assume that PRESTO will go live on that day.
From TTC:
https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp
From TTC:
https://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Proof_of_payment.jsp
Megaton327
Senior Member
Thanks for the heads up--no widespread announcement that I know of was made about this.
The TTC really needs to begin a massive rider info program for Presto, namely surrounding how transfers work. If I'm just riding the 509, no problem. If I'm riding on a 509 and switch to the 510 at Spadina, presumably I'd have to tap again on the 510, and it would be a free transfer. What about the following case: 509 east to Union, subway to Queen, 501 east; if I tap on the 509, there is nowhere to tap at Union because the streetcars are in the fare paid zone, so how will the 501 know that I have a valid transfer?
These sorts of things really need to be clarified to riders. Hopefully the TTC does that soon.
Also, regarding POP going live on the 14th--HAH! A year from now there will still be drivers refusing to open the back doors and screaming at passengers that the route is not POP, if the 509 has been any indication since March of this year...about a quarter of the drivers still refuse to operate the vehicles properly as POP and scream viciously at passengers who board through the back. I have made dozens of complaints to the TTC about 509 drivers alone, and received no meaningful replies. They need to do better.
nfitz
Superstar
At Spadina? They don't share a stop at Spadina. Presumably you'd transfer at Rees. Though I assume both will be in the transfer table.
The text clearly states that "Customers using PRESTO will require a transfer if their journey includes bus transportation. ... PRESTO customers whose journey includes bus transportation, should board at the front door and take a transfer. "
I think it goes without saying then that the transfer would be free! Will be interesting to see how they implement the transfers though, given all the whacky and unorthodox transfers I've made over the years, during detours, etc. (a frequent example being an Eastbound 506 to 501 at Connaught/Queen).
I take the 509 regularly. Right now, I tap on and then get a transfer because there are often checks at Union Station and it's faster to show a transfer than make the TTC enforcement crew get out their machine to check if my Presto card is valid.
nfitz, 509 and 510 do share a stop at Spadina.
nfitz, 509 and 510 do share a stop at Spadina.
nfitz
Superstar
Westbound? Isn't the 510 stop ON Spadina and the 509 stop on Harbourfront? I've changed at Rees before.
Eastbound you could change at the same stop when on 509 - but why would you, as all cars go to Union, so presumably the only time a 509 rider would change at Spadina is westbound, where surely it's a different stop.
While one doesn't need a transfer then using Presto on streetcars, given the frequency of replacement buses, and also using the various downtown bus routes as an alternate at the last second, I'd still be taking a transfer.
Westbound the Spadina stop is in two different places (just south of the intersection for 510 going north and just west of it for 509 going west), eastbound they do. Some 510s short-turn at QQ and don't go to Union, so people will get off the 510 and continue on to Union on the 509.
Kitsune
Senior Member
The report mentions all stations will be Fare Gates by end of 2016... thats a bit quicker then anticipated no ? :
- As the TTC replaces its turnstiles with faregates, all 69 subway stations will be PRESTO enabled. This is scheduled for the end of 2016