Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

nfitz said:
Perhaps it's naïve of me, but I don't think the ü character appears in any English or French words I'm familiar with, and shouldn't be used in branding.
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I think, like a lot of marketing things these days, it is just made up. I, obviously, wasn't at the meeting(s) but I bet it went like this

  • we need to replace that Acceleride name....it is too long and cumbersome
  • we need something short and snappy
  • we need to keep the notion that Acceleride gave of a faster ride
  • maybe we need it to appear European...where transit is cool
  • Oh, I got it we will call it Zoom but take out the "o"s and put in a "ü"
It may be dumb....it may be hokey....but I can tell you it is effective....until today I have never had a discussion with someone who did not know it was pronounced zoom....and people in Brampton (who, after all, are the target audience) just naturally refer to it as the zoom buses.
 
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TOareaFan said:
It may be dumb....it may be hokey....but I can tell you it is effective....until today I have never had a discussion with someone who did not know it was pronounced zoom....and people in Brampton (who, after all, are the target audience) just naturally refer to it as the zoom buses.
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If it works. Not sure how they marketed it to get it out there ... I can't say I've ever said it out loud - but in my mind, I always rhyme it with bum and dumb.
 
Adjei said:
And how many riders are expected for the Finch LRT or Hamilton, yet they are getting built.
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Doady beat me to this: the Finch West bus carried 44,000 per day in 2012, so it actually has a decent established ridership base. Although BRT would have also been okay for this, I think it's a good candidate for LRT.

In general, most of the Transit City routes were good candidates for LRTs because they were chosen based on which bus routes had the highest ridership.

doady said:
I think people are asking the wrong questions. Instead of whether Brampton has the ridership to justify LRT, we should ask whether even Mississauga has the ridership to justify LRT.

Consider 19 Hurontario's 20k boardings per weekday. 20k is pathetic by TTC standards. There are TTC bus routes with over 40k. Why can't Hurontario be the same? Clearly, buses are able to easily handle the ridership of Hurontario. LRT is not needed on Hurontario any more than it is needed on Ossington Ave.

Highest ridership bus routes, 2010-2012

32 Eglinton West 48,684
35 Jane 45,699
36 Finch West 43,952
39 Finch West 41,434
29 Dufferin 39,721
54 Lawrence East 36,277
60 Steeles West 29,819
34 Eglinton East 29,501
53 Steeles East 28,050
85 Sheppard East 27,146
95 York Mills 27,709
96 Wilson 27,700
24 Victoria Park 24,731
41 Keele 24,592
7 Bathurst 24,262
102 Markham Rd 24,152
52 Lawrence West 23,036
63 Ossington 22,694
116 Morningside 22,285
Viva Blue 21,547
165 Weston Rd North 21,361
19 Hurontario 20,554
196 York University Rocket 20,199

http://dmg.utoronto.ca/pdf/tts/2011/validation2011.pdf

(Note, some TTC numbers are from 2010, in the midst of recession, so they should be even higher. 19 Hurontario's ridership is from 2012 so it is inflated here.)

If you are a Toronto resident, you should ask why the province is providing full funding for an LRT line in Mississauga when there are 20 TTC bus routes that have more ridership.

If you are a Mississauga, you should ask if you'd really rather have an LRT to Brampton instead of Toronto.
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I'd like to point out in your list that the 196 gets replaced with a subway extension ;).

But in general, the province has been choosing where LRTs go in a way that spreads the money around. Spending the money based on where there is a demonstrated need/demand would mean that the money would overwhelmingly go to Toronto. Spending money on Toronto is the political equivalent of kicking puppies at a campaign rally, so they need to balance it out.

By focusing on GO and on LRTs in suburban municipalities that connect to GO, they're able to target those affluent swing surburban ridings that decide the elections.
 
nfitz said:
Perhaps it's naïve of me, but I don't think the ü character appears in any English or French words I'm familiar with, and shouldn't be used in branding.
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That's downright anti-hipster of you.

I get a bit grumpy about all the branding exercises, as a poor use of taxpayer dollars. Seems to me that the authority that plans transportation for the Greater Toronto Area could be called the Greater Toronto Transportation Authority, or something retro like that. One paper recently noted that UPE branding cost $4M to develop. That's a lot of train-miles.

In Zum's case, although it's not a lot of dollars, they seem to dispense more trinkets and trash than most transit properties would feel comfortable with.

If you think the dots on the u (they are called umlauts, if I recall my Grade 10 German) are tedious....check out the circles on those Zum busses. There's actually a paint diagram for them. Just for a chuckle - here's the paint scheme for the city bus in Aix-en-Provence, France. Kind of the Impressionist end of the pendulum, in contrast to Zum's Teutonic approach to dots on busses.

- Paul

Aix Bus.jpg
 

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On my Mac keyboard, I press and hold the option key and the u key at the same time, followed by the u key by itself a second time, and I get a ü. Pressing the shift key and the u at the same time gets the capital Ü.

On the iPhone, pressing and holding most letters will display a selection of accents available for that character. Useful for typing the French spellings for Montréal and Québec.
 
mdrejhon said:
So they've bought all they could at the moment, while continuing to work "on the rest". Obviously, exact specifics were not mentioned, whether it's just waiting CN out, adding a third track that they're allowed to electricify, and/or negotiating with them. Perhaps other dark horses could be involved (Freight Bypass, HSR, etc) to help push things along.
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That Freight Bypass is a dark horse I could put my money on. That would eliminate mainline CN traffic, and give GO full access of both tracks.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
That Freight Bypass is a dark horse I could put my money on. That would eliminate mainline CN traffic, and give GO full access of both tracks.
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I like the idea too, but it will be a lengthy process requiring an EA, potential resident challenges, design and construction time, etc.

Could CN be induced to give GO greater access sooner, with the bypass taking its sweet time? I would suspect so, for the right price. CN is not that busy along that line.....a half dozen Sarnia trains each way, plus one to Stratford, plus one to Niagara. Some of which travel at night anyways. Occasionally CN detours additional trains to Sarnia when its Northern Ontario line to the west is blocked, but again that could happen at night. A down payment now, with the balance when the bypass is ready....?

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I like the idea too, but it will be a lengthy process requiring an EA, potential resident challenges, design and construction time, etc.

Could CN be induced to give GO greater access sooner, with the bypass taking its sweet time? I would suspect so, for the right price. CN is not that busy along that line.....a half dozen Sarnia trains each way, plus one to Stratford, plus one to Niagara. Some of which travel at night anyways. Occasionally CN detours additional trains to Sarnia when its Northern Ontario line to the west is blocked, but again that could happen at night. A down payment now, with the balance when the bypass is ready....?

- Paul
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As I mentioned before, with the Credit River bridge widening, three platforms at Mount Pleasant, a second platform at Brampton, double-tracking of the formerly single-track section though Downtown Brampton, and the third track from Centre Street to Halwest, there's a lot more capacity than there was in 2000, with only two or three additional GO movements since. There's enough track capacity today for both CN and GO, as long as GO operates an two-way all day hourly train to Mount Pleasant in the off-peak. CN would still have more capacity to itself than it did 10-15 years ago. There's room for a few additional trains to Kitchener (either GO or VIA) as well.

The south platform at Brampton allows for construction to move the station back and install a third (maybe even a fourth?) track and new north platform there for half-hourly or better GO service. Even building a fourth track between Halwest and Centre Street and between McMurchy and Mount Pleasant could theoretically allow GO to squeeze in half-hourly all day service, using a single platform at Brampton; CN would be constrained only at Downtown Brampton, but there are plenty of single-track sections of the CN Halton Sub between Georgetown and Burlington.
 
ShonTron said:
As I mentioned before, with the Credit River bridge widening, three platforms at Mount Pleasant, a second platform at Brampton, double-tracking of the formerly single-track section though Downtown Brampton, and the third track from Centre Street to Halwest, there's a lot more capacity than there was in 2000, with only two or three additional GO movements since. There's enough track capacity today for both CN and GO, as long as GO operates an two-way all day hourly train to Mount Pleasant in the off-peak. CN would still have more capacity to itself than it did 10-15 years ago. There's room for a few additional trains to Kitchener (either GO or VIA) as well.

The south platform at Brampton allows for construction to move the station back and install a third (maybe even a fourth?) track and new north platform there for half-hourly or better GO service. Even building a fourth track between Halwest and Centre Street and between McMurchy and Mount Pleasant could theoretically allow GO to squeeze in half-hourly all day service, using a single platform at Brampton; CN would be constrained only at Downtown Brampton, but there are plenty of single-track sections of the CN Halton Sub between Georgetown and Burlington.
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I am surprise you call for a 4th track at Brampton Station unless its a stub track.

It going to be tight getting 3 tracks cross Mills, but not a 4th without closing off the driveway to the west as well major shifting of tracks for all lines including the Orangeville line. Also, the platforms will have to be move to the east to go over Main St as well.

Otherwise than the station, you have the ability of having 4 tracks from Bramalea to Georgetown and this will give everyone the capacity they need. There should be 4 tracks to the cut off for the Kitchener line.

The plan 3rd track will go up near to the fence on the south side of the existing driveway on the west side and be in line where the stair is to get to the south side at the west end of the station today. This will be your centre platform.

Putting in a 4th track will eat most of the lot up with a north platform beside the moved VIA station.

Its only money.
 
TOareaFan said:
with a few poetic liscences thrown in.....not sure why both sides of this debate have to continually bend the facts a bit in their, respective, favours.
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That's true. It does state things for certain which are anything but. Unfortunately, such is the nature of public debates.

I'd be much more critical if the government released this video, but since it's from a self-described pro-LRT group, I'm more willing to let it slide.
 
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