GTHA Transit Fare Integration

[nfitz]

Yes its not that bad, but the point other people were making is that you wouldn't save much time after having to make that type of transfer, and so it won't be worth $60/month to most people.

If your on the streetcar, it's not worth walking to Danforth station, and taking a 10-minute train trip to Union, compared to sitting on the streetcar on the red light, going around the long loop into Main Station, and then walking down two of the longer flights of stairs in the subway system?

By the time the passenger who got off the streetcar on Main south of Danforth has walked to the GO Platform, the passenger still on the streetcar is still waiting for the streetcar to stop moving, to walk into the subway station.

No, I don't think many will get off the subway and switch to Danforth. However, your "There isn't even a bus/streetcar stop near Danforth GO Station" was in response to my comment "I'd have thought it was more likely those who are taking a bus or streetcar past the station. I can't imagine it will attract many people off the subway." So clearly we were talking about bus/streetcar to GO transfers - not subway to GO transfers.

Though still, I expect most near Danforth station will continue to take the subway - simply because their destinations are a lot closer to the subway than they are to Union Station.

Still, it's a step forward. And a significant cost savings for those who would buy both a monthly Metropass ($133.75) and pay for Danforth-Union or Exhibition on GO ($181.60), as they now would only pay $193.75 instead of $315.35 a month - a savings of over $1,400 a year.

Another way to look at this, is those who are paying $181.60 for GO a month, but only use TTC occasionally, can now get unlimited TTC travel for only $12.15 a month - that could pay for itself very quickly.

 

[TOareaFan]

Front page story here, with ride price comparisons.

42

As I have just posted there.......

The average cost in a month of 40 rides between Exhibition and Union with a Presto Card is $4.26 (35 trips at 4.77 and 5 @ 0.65). With a Metropass and this sticker the average cost is $4.84 ($4.56 if on the discount plan).

Obviously if the rider then uses the Metropass a lot for non work commute trips they are "in the money" but if this is intended to combat the perceived need for that private bus....increasing the cost per trip is a funny approach.

 

[nfitz]

The scheduled trip time is actually 12 minutes from Danforth to Union, so if I leave 10 minutes for the transfer that means I save 3 minutes in exchange for $60 a month. I also don't work in Union station, but near St. Andrew station so there will be additional walking time. For some people it will make for a faster trip, but it's not enough an improvement to justify the extra cost and need to follow a schedule. I'm not very good at leaving home at exactly the same time, because I don't have to be thanks to the subway's frequent service!

The trip time is padded. The actual time is only 10 minutes. With the new switches into Union, I've seen it be done in 9.

I expect it won't work for most people. But for those who live near Danforth or Exhibition, and currently use GO, it's a huge benefit, even if they only use TTC occasionally. And for some who live near the stations, but currently use TTC, will be more likely to now use GO.

I doubt that many people will be getting off the train at Main Street station though - unless they work right in Union Station.

 

[nfitz]

Front page story here, with ride price comparisons.

For fun, check out how much the one-stop trip from Danforth to Kennedy costs on GO though. $8.64 on Feb 1st, compared to only $5.09 from Union-Kennedy (which now stops at Danforth).

 

[LNahid2000]

If your on the streetcar, it's not worth walking to Danforth station, and taking a 10-minute train trip to Union, compared to sitting on the streetcar on the red light, going around the long loop into Main Station, and then walking down two of the longer flights of stairs in the subway system?

In the winter, hell no, especially not for $60. If it was free I might do it though. You say the walk is 90m, but it's actually closer to 200m to get to the actual GO platform (not the entrance to the station). I'd rather stay on the heated streetcar which drops me right into the station where I can usually get onto a heated train within 3 minutes vs. getting off the streetcar, walking 200m in the cold, and then having to wait on an outdoor platform for the train. And with how reliable streetcars are, it would be difficult to even time your streetcar ride for a GO train departure, so who knows how long you'd be waiting on that platform.

 

[Forgotten]

Bullshit, no Mimico yet again - Grimes is a loser councillor.

However, for $60 extra a month they can take their integration and shove it up their ***.

If the integration doesn't include Mimico, I suggest contacting your alderman and letting him know that you're going to put him on notice for 2018 if he doesn't shape up and try his hardest to put a stop to it.

 

[nfitz]

In the winter, hell no, especially not for $60.

I wouldn't do it in the pouring rain either.

You say the walk is 90m, but it's actually closer to 200m to get to the actual GO platform (not the entrance to the station).

90 metres from the bus to the entrance to the GO Station. You don't think you walk 110 metres in Main station from the bus platform, around to the top of the stairs, down the long flight of stairs, across possibly the largest mezzanine TTC built before the 1990s, then down another long flight of stairs? I'm not seeing the difference here, other than rain.

I'd rather stay on the heated streetcar which drops me right into the station where I can usually get onto a heated train within 3 minutes vs. getting off the streetcar, walking 200m in the cold, and then having to wait on an outdoor platform for the train.

If the cold is an issue, why does everyone think that SmartTrack is the bees knees?

And with how reliable streetcars are, it would be difficult to even time your streetcar ride for a GO train departure, so who knows how long you'd be waiting on that platform.

I do this now, to get to GO Exhibition. You look when the streetcar is coming on NextBus. And you get it. If it's looking very poor, I just walk the 15 minutes to Danforth station. Yes, some days, it's going to fail, and then you take the subway or streetcar straight away, but you can see this from NextBus and the GO train arrival information before you leave the house. Once in a while, you do a mad sprint from the streetcar to the GO Train. And less often, you see from the streetcar crossing the bridge over the GO tracks that you don't have a hope in hell, and you just continue to the subway.

More importantly, this is a model for fare integration. And for that, it seems a decent first baby step.

 

[robmausser]

In the winter, hell no, especially not for $60. If it was free I might do it though. You say the walk is 90m, but it's actually closer to 200m to get to the actual GO platform (not the entrance to the station). I'd rather stay on the heated streetcar which drops me right into the station where I can usually get onto a heated train within 3 minutes vs. getting off the streetcar, walking 200m in the cold, and then having to wait on an outdoor platform for the train. And with how reliable streetcars are, it would be difficult to even time your streetcar ride for a GO train departure, so who knows how long you'd be waiting on that platform.

GO really needs to heat their platform shelters.

 

[LNahid2000]

I do this now, to get to GO Exhibition. You look when the streetcar is coming on NextBus. And you get it. If it's looking very poor, I just walk the 15 minutes to Danforth station. Yes, some days, it's going to fail, and then you take the subway or streetcar straight away, but you can see this from NextBus and the GO train arrival information before you leave the house. Once in a while, you do a mad sprint from the streetcar to the GO Train. And less often, you see from the streetcar crossing the bridge over the GO tracks that you don't have a hope in hell, and you just continue to the subway.

This sounds like a huge hassle to save a few minutes. Most people are going to just continue to use Main Street Station where they can usually get every 2.5 minute trains during rush hour. I'm interested to see how many people actually buy these $60 passes.

 

[ehlow]

GO really needs to heat their platform shelters.

I thought there was already heating on the platform shelters? (I don't take GO regularly)

 

[ehlow]

If the cold is an issue, why does everyone think that SmartTrack is the bees knees?

We don't really know how ST stations will look. It's possible they could have heated areas with platform doors like a UPX station, or even smaller heated areas.

 

[nfitz]

This sounds like a huge hassle to save a few minutes. Most people are going to just continue to use Main Street Station where they can usually get every 2.5 minute trains during rush hour. I'm interested to see how many people actually buy these $60 passes.

If you live in that new development southeast of Danforth station, and already walk through Danforth station to get to Main Street station, then it's going to save you a lot more than a few minutes.

There's already a lot of people using Danforth and Exhibition stations. Why wouldn't they buy this $60 pass? They are already paying $181.60 a month to use GO. Why wouldn't they want to pay only $12.15 a month for unlimited TTC usage on top of that?

No it won't get people who are getting off the Danforth subway to change at Main Street. But no one is saying that it will. It may get a few who take TTC who start their journeys at Main Street to start taking GO instead - particularly those who already take the bus or streetcar past Danforth station every day and who work at or south of Union station.

 

[mdrejhon]

As I have just posted there.......
The average cost in a month of 40 rides between Exhibition and Union with a Presto Card is $4.26 (35 trips at 4.77 and 5 @ 0.65). With a Metropass and this sticker the average cost is $4.84 ($4.56 if on the discount plan).
Obviously if the rider then uses the Metropass a lot for non work commute trips they are "in the money" but if this is intended to combat the perceived need for that private bus....increasing the cost per trip is a funny approach.

This isn't for GO commuters.
This is more for GO+TTC commuters who need a Metropass anyway (e.g. people who travel from Pickering to work at Yonge-Bloor).
If this is the case, the average cost is more like $1.50 -- about a 65% savings.

I will be needing a metropass soon because I need to go to Yonge-Bloor everyday from Hamilton, about four days a week (got one work-at-home day a week to compensate, hallelujah!), as my work is relocating there. Hopefully there'll eventually be a discount for long distance commuters that use both GO and TTC. Especially after full Presto deployment. It's going to cost me over $400/month, but I ain't going to commute there by car during peak.

 

[ssiguy2]

The people at Metrolinx maybe incompetent but that doesn't mean they are stupid.

How many HOURS is it going to take before other communities {like vocal Westons} start demanding the same sort of service?
Metrolinx has let the Genie out of the bottle but the really good news is that Metrolinx knows it. Metrolinx says it's technically just a "trial" but know that there is no turning back and that integration is inevitable.

 

[mdrejhon]

If the cold is an issue, why does everyone think that SmartTrack is the bees knees?

They are going to probably build/rebuild all 22 stations for SmartTrack, because of The Great Platform Height Debate, which is an opportunity to build heated waiting areas within the stations. Also, an electricified GO RER train (which Metrolinx has declared that is what SmartTrack is) with 15-min offpeak / 5-min onpeak frequency, is VERY attractive, a much shorter TTC-style wait in the cold. Beats waiting 30mins for current GO trains.