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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

Trump aside, the general exemptions for Canada under the present "Buy America waivers" have already expired. We don't even need to talk hypotheticals. So who is Bombardier going to sell the Kingston produced LRVs to beside domestically? There are a number of US manufacturers at this time.

Canada is also in abrogation of procurement provisions under Nafta. Lots on-line if you really want to go there. Ontario, for instance, is in violation with the Green Energy Act, but I digress...lots of Cdn government and Crown Corporations are. But of course, that doesn't get mentioned much in the Cdn press.

Meantime, you might wish to read these links:
Canada being sued for NAFTA violation by private American wind energy company

Local procurement rules in Ontario Green Energy Act threatened.
Click to expand...
http://www.publicvalues.ca/ViewArticle.cfm?Ref=001004

Trump would have broad power to circumvent existing treaties and implement new tariffs.

Under the 1974 Trade Act, Presidents can take unilateral trade actions using any number of excuses including "terrorism, pollution, cybersecurity, consumer safety, labor rights, etc." [1] [2] [3]

Congress could try to overturn these unilateral actions, but that doesn't happen often.

President Reagan used these powers right after he became President, restraining imports of Japanese cars, electronics, memory chips, and Canadian lumber, among other things. [4] [5] [6]

Trump could argue that Mexico was not protecting the U.S. from terrorism and that terrorists were trying to smuggle weapons via Mexican imports. That alone would be an excuse to get rid of Nafta "temporarily" and impose tariffs on Mexican imports.

He could argue that Mexican factories didn't have adequate pollution controls and that tariffs were necessary for that reason.

He could argue that Mexican labor rights were horrid and that a compensatory tariff on all Mexican imports was needed.

He could argue that some Mexican goods were unsafe and as such, Mexican goods should face a tariff "until we can figure out what is going on."

He could argue all of the above.

If Congress became concerned that Trump would start trade wars, they could modify the 1974 Trade Act before he became President, but it's not clear that any such attempt would succeed.

Footnotes

[1] Can Trump Start a Trade War?

[2] Trade Act of 1974

[3] Trade Act of 1974

[4] The Reagan Record On Trade: Rhetoric Vs. Reality

[5] Can Trump Start a Trade War?

[6] What would Trump's trade policy look like in action? - AEI
Click to expand...
https://www.quora.com/To-what-degre...break-international-trade-treaties-like-NAFTA


http://tradecommissioner.gc.ca/sell...rement-marches/agreement-accord.aspx?lang=eng

www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/constr10_swick_paper.pdf

https://www.transit.dot.gov/regulations-and-guidance/buy-america/notices-buy-america-waivers
 
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steveintoronto said:
Trump aside, the general exemptions for Canada under the present "Buy America waivers" have already expired. We don't even need to talk hypotheticals. So who is Bombardier going to sell the Kingston produced LRVs to beside domestically? There are a number of US manufacturers at this time.
Click to expand...

I've read the articles and documents you've provided links for and you've given me some food for thought. I still believe that the "Trump factor" is important and Trump is very capricious. If he does reinforce the "Buy America" provisions even beyond what Obama and other presidents have done then Bombardier is going to have a problem (a yuge problem!). Like I said, we'll have to wait and see how everything unfolds starting January 20th.
 
books said:
I still believe that the "Trump factor" is important and Trump is very capricious.
Click to expand...
There's a very real possibility that Trump is rendered moot, or worse. It's started already, the question is how far will it go? Remember, the Senate can overturn his trade decisions.
 
steveintoronto said:
There's a very real possibility that Trump is rendered moot, or worse. It's started already, the question is how far will it go? Remember, the Senate can overturn his trade decisions.
Click to expand...

I've been thinking that the "Trump presidency" might turn out to be more of a Mike Pence presidency. VP Pence and House leader Paul Ryan could steer the ship of state by getting together to discuss policy initiatives. Then Pence would go to President Trump, explain the policy idea, convince Trump that it's a great idea and that the idea owes so much to Trump's earlier pronouncements, etc. - in other words, massage Trump's ego.

Tony Schwartz, the guy who wrote "The Art of the Deal" states in a New Yorker article that Trump craves attention and also that he has a very limited attention span.

Quote:
"But the discussion was soon hobbled by what Schwartz regards as one of Trump’s most essential characteristics: 'He has no attention span.'"

So, the "Trump factor" won the GOP the White House and both Houses of Congress but maybe Donald Trump is no longer useful and will be sidelined as more of a hood ornament than anything else. If so, then how protectionist is Congress and what does Mike Pence think of allowing Canadian companies to bid on US urban transit projects?
 
Megaton327 said:
Getting very off-topic here for the last page or so.
Click to expand...
Feel absolutely free to get it back on: The new Millhaven Bombardier LRV plant, and its future.

I find this claim curious, considering its recent date:
Thunder Bay Bombardier plant still expecting 2nd TTC assembly line in wake of job cuts
Company says Friday's announcement not affecting previous committments to ramp up light rail production
CBC News Posted: Oct 21, 2016 12:15 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 21, 2016 12:15 PM ET
Click to expand...
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/bombardier-cuts-thunder-bay-1.3815582

I've been searching for the article Allandale posted prior in the general press, nothing. It may be there, but just not showing in successive Google searches.

Here it is again, and there's aspects that don't align with the above linked story:
Bombardier completes expansion

1297269524623_AUTHOR_PHOTO.jpg

By Elliot Ferguson, Kingston Whig-Standard

Thursday, December 8, 2016 5:03:52 EST PM



Bombardier has completed a major expansion of its Millhaven rail production facility.

The company spent $11 million to expand its light rail vehicle (LRV) manufacturing space at the site on Taylor-Kidd Boulevard, west of Kingston.

The facility now has almost 4,200 square metres (45,000 square feet) of construction space, including five construction bays, a new 10-ton crane, new connections to the CN rail spur and improvements to the two-kilometre-long test track.

“To really have the manufacturing capacity to go forward, we did a big investment in our Kingston plant. We more than doubled the manufacturing area,” said company spokesperson Marc-Andre Lefebvre.

“Right now we are moving in all the tooling to be ready for light rail manufacturing.”

Approximately 300 people currently work at the Kingston-area plant right, but Lefebvre said the number of employees varies depending on the contracts they secure.

“Ours is a business of ebbs and flows, moved by the cyclical nature of the contracts we secure,” he said in an email Thursday. “That is why we usually indicate workforce by project, because we can only predict workforce in the future for work that we have already secured.”

Lefebvre said the light rail contracts the company has will sustain about 175 jobs on average over the next six years and peak at 240 jobs in 2019.

Early this year, two contracts were completed, including a second order for rail cars for the transit system in Kuala Lumpur, and Lefebvre said about 70 jobs from those contracts were transferred to the light rail vehicle manufacturing.

“So, in total, we are creating, on average, as production on LRVs ramp up, approximately 100 new jobs for the duration of this contract,” Lefebvre said.

The Millhaven plant expansion was announced in May when Bombardier revealed plans to relieve pressure on its Thunder Bay facility — which has been tasked with completing a $1.25 billion Toronto Transit Commission project — by shifting all non-TTC related work to its Kingston centre.

The company plans to turn its Kingston facility into a hub for light rail car production for Canada and the United States, Lefebvre said.
Click to expand...
http://www.thewhig.com/2016/04/21/bombardier-serving-the-world-from-kingston

"The company plans to turn its Kingston facility into a hub for light rail car production for Canada and the United States," Lefebvre said.
 
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cplchanb said:
interesting....it appears that there are no overhead wiring inside the shop so the car needs to be towed everywhere. Is there any schedule on when testing will be conducted? With this
weather its a perfect time to evaluate sub freezing temp performance
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It could be easily pushed or pulled. The TTC paint booth at Leslie Barns doesn't have any overheads either. No big deal.
 
The current plan for the light rail vehicle configuration for the Crosstown LRT (and the other Transit City lines) are for two cars coupled together initially into a train. Over time, or depending upon demand, they'll increase to a three car train.

Maybe in time, they may want to use a single long articulated light rail train, like the Toronto heavy rail subway trains.

There are discussions in Ottawa looking into such trains for their light rail system.

See link.

The Double Link LRV Concept: More Riders. Same Footprint.

 
W. K. Lis said:
The current plan for the light rail vehicle configuration for the Crosstown LRT (and the other Transit City lines) are for two cars coupled together initially into a train. Over time, or depending upon demand, they'll increase to a three car train.

Maybe in time, they may want to use a single long articulated light rail train, like the Toronto heavy rail subway trains.

There are discussions in Ottawa looking into such trains for their light rail system.

See link.

The Double Link LRV Concept: More Riders. Same Footprint.
Click to expand...
The longest car in service world wide is 56m in Budapest by CFA and are 100% lowfloor. It has 9 section and has duel pans.

Most systems are moving to 42-45m with some in the 30's as well in the high 20's.

I agree that over time, that you move from a single to duel before going to 3 cars. Once you are at the 3-4 car train, thats is when you move to longer single car.

I believe the Ottawa current cars for the new line are 42m.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Maybe in time, they may want to use a single long articulated light rail train, like the Toronto heavy rail subway trains.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent link from W.K., just glancing through it for now, there's a lot to digest in there, but my immediate thought is like Drum's:
drum118 said:
The longest car in service world wide is 56m in Budapest by CFA and are 100% lowfloor. It has 9 section and has duel pans.

Most systems are moving to 42-45m with some in the 30's as well in the high 20's.

I agree that over time, that you move from a single to duel before going to 3 cars. Once you are at the 3-4 car train, thats is when you move to longer single car.
Click to expand...
I've seen them in use in a number of jurisdictions, albeit I've got to check to make sure they are fully low floor before citing them. The fact that the Ottawa ones (and related) are Alstom indicates a German and/or French origin:

Pardon the lazy posting, short on time, but this is a great string to discuss further later:
Alstom Citadis - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Citadis
The Citadis is a family of low-floor trams (streetcars) and light rail vehicles built by Alstom. ... Regio-Citadis – three sections, 70% low floor tram-train (Kassel, The Hague, Salzgitter); Citadis ... covered by a tram so that there is no risk of a person or animal coming into contact with a live rail. ... Semi permanently coupled.
Alstom's Citadis Spirit begins train dynamic testing in Ottawa
www.alstom.com/press.../alstoms-citadis-spirit-begins-train-dynamic-testing-in-ottawa/
Dec 5, 2016 - Alstom's Citadis Spirit, a 100% low-floor light rail vehicle designed for ... be conducted on a multiple unit train, i.e. two trains coupled together.
Alstom's Citadis Trams - Railway Technology
www.railway-technology.com/projects/citadis-trams/
Citadis is a class of low-floor trams developed by France based ... The length can be extended from a coupled two-car to a maximum of seven-car sections. ... It is built on a tram-train concept which allows the trams to run even on rail-tracks. ... in February 2011 while the remaining will be put into operation by the end of 2011 ...
[...]
Click to expand...
- : Google search results (first three) for "alstom citadis low floor tram coupled into trains"

PS: From W.K.'s Seattle link:
[...][Double Link is based on the 48 m (158 ft) long 4-segment vehicles from Alstom that Ottawa’s OC Transpo picked for its new Confederation Line. Their downtown subway platforms are 120 m (400 ft) long just like Link’s, while their surface platforms are 90 m with provision for future expansion. Likewise, the vehicles can be expanded to 59 m (194 ft) by inserting an additional segment. Siemens, the builder of Link’s new vehicles, offer comparable products outside North America. Link’s sister vehicles in New Jersey have been retrofitted with extra segments, opening the possibility for the current Kinkisharyo fleet to be lengthened as well.][...]

Now that is intriguing....note also from the latter Google hit above:
"It is built on a tram-train concept which allows the trams to run even on rail-tracks"

This is a point being raised time and again, and Ottawa has received at least one major TC waiver for the O-Train...when does Metrolinx go to bat for the GTHA?
 
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