Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[Fred.S]

That's one thing I'm wondering. The Outlook I can understand being a finicky product, considering the unique specs. But I was under the impression the Flexity Freedom was about as 'off-the-shelf' an LRV as one could get.

My understanding is that Metrolinx is the first customer for the Flexity Freedom, as there aren't any actually built and running anywhere yet (I think the most closely-related model in operation is the European Flexity 2). So really, the Freedom is only "off-the-shelf" for anyone who buys it after us. Ontario is the lucky customer who gets to test out a new product.

 

[Steve X]

My understanding is that Metrolinx is the first customer for the Flexity Freedom, as there aren't any actually built and running anywhere yet (I think the most closely-related model in operation is the European Flexity 2). So really, the Freedom is only "off-the-shelf" for anyone who buys it after us. Ontario is the lucky customer who gets to test out a new product.

Off the shelf meaning many of the parts already exist like they are using an existing ATO system already developed.

 

[44 North]

My understanding is that Metrolinx is the first customer for the Flexity Freedom, as there aren't any actually built and running anywhere yet (I think the most closely-related model in operation is the European Flexity 2). So really, the Freedom is only "off-the-shelf" for anyone who buys it after us. Ontario is the lucky customer who gets to test out a new product.

Oh yea, I guess you're right. Was thinking a variant of the Freedom was operated in Europe, but it's variants of the Flexity family (of which the Freedom is a new member that hasn't started production yet).

Now is there an actual delay for the vehicle, or is it merely speculated considering the Outlook issues? From what I've seen in KW in terms of track completion, testing of vehicles should be sometime in 2017. But will the vehicles be ready?

 

[DKsan]

Take this with a grain of salt, but apparently the vehicle starts some form of testing next month. See here.

 

[Napoleon]

My understanding is that Metrolinx is the first customer for the Flexity Freedom, as there aren't any actually built and running anywhere yet (I think the most closely-related model in operation is the European Flexity 2). So really, the Freedom is only "off-the-shelf" for anyone who buys it after us. Ontario is the lucky customer who gets to test out a new product.

Ah, I didn't realize that this was a completely new model. I've ridden a number of Flexity products in Europe and always been very happy with them. Their are some beautiful lines in Istanbul, for example. Let's hope this is close enough that they figure it out quickly.

 

[smallspy]

Ah, I didn't realize that this was a completely new model. I've ridden a number of Flexity products in Europe and always been very happy with them. Their are some beautiful lines in Istanbul, for example. Let's hope this is close enough that they figure it out quickly.

It's not, really.

The Freedom is the same basic Flexity 2 that they've been marketing in Europe, Asia and Australia for the past 5 or 6 years, but with a revamped body for North American proportions. All of the major electrical and mechanical components are coming out of the same plants as the Flexity cars.

Oh, and because it's being marketed in the US, they decided to come up with a name that particularly screams 'Murica.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Allandale25]

The "Rapid Transit, Capital Projects Group - Quarterly Status Report: Q4 2015/16 January 1 to March 31, 2016" report has been posted on the Metrolinx website here. Page 5 shows pictures of the Metrolinx LRV pilot. There are two date stamps on the pictures: January and April 2016.

Also, in the Q3 2015-2016 October 1 to December 31, 2015 report (see here) there is an interior shot:

 

[cplchanb]

wow....I like how in the span between the interior cab shot (nov 15) to the exterior shot (apr 16) NOTHING MUCH has changed.........
speaks volumes on the competency of bbr....seriously you dont need 2 years to make a pilot of a vehicle that is largely the same as the ones already running
in large quantities around the world. What bespoke components did ML spec with this anyways??????

 

[Tulse]

Yep, I really don't get it -- aren't these vehicles pretty much off-the-shelf?

 

[smallspy]

Yep, I really don't get it -- aren't these vehicles pretty much off-the-shelf?

And how many have they built of these at Thunder Bay thus far?

Hint: it's zero.

You can't just throw the first car together like its Lego. There may be issues with fit-and-finish, components may need to be adjusted or even redesigned, and the assembly methodology may need to be rethought . Everything needs to be tested - both in terms of performance and fit - before it gets fully installed. And as much as everything else, the workers need to become familiar with how everything goes together.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cplchanb]

And how many have they built of these at Thunder Bay thus far?

Hint: it's zero.

You can't just throw the first car together like its Lego. There may be issues with fit-and-finish, components may need to be adjusted or even redesigned, and the assembly methodology may need to be rethought . Everything needs to be tested - both in terms of performance and fit - before it gets fully installed. And as much as everything else, the workers need to become familiar with how everything goes together.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Regardless, theres no excuse for being over a year overdue. Blaming it on start up bugs and delays with the flexities can only go so long....they are separate jobs. If they cant sort themselves out they dont deserve the contract and should
be barred from future orders. In this same time it took from contract signing to ALMOST make 1 train, a 80+ Storey building was constructed..... 2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS are almost done from scratch. FAIL BBR

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Regardless, theres no excuse for being over a year overdue. Blaming it on start up bugs and delays with the flexities can only go so long....they are separate jobs. If they cant sort themselves out they dont deserve the contract and should
be barred from future orders. In this same time it took from contract signing to ALMOST make 1 train, a 80+ Storey building was constructed..... 2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS are almost done from scratch. FAIL BBR

technically they aren't separate jobs don't forget the Flexty Freedoms for Metrolink are a part of the TTC contract the TTC just sold them to them when Metrolink took over the building of what would have been the Transit city lines. I wonder if the prototype for metrolink is the first one having it's farmes all built in Canada and may have taken longer because they were setting up the production lines for them.

 

[nfitz]

technically they aren't separate jobs don't forget the Flexty Freedoms for Metrolink are a part of the TTC contract the TTC just sold them to them when Metrolink took over the building of what would have been the Transit city lines

With the TTC Flexities being built in Thunder Bay, and the Metrolinx ones (other than the prototypes) being built in Millhaven, they are now effectively different jobs.

 

[smallspy]

Regardless, theres no excuse for being over a year overdue. Blaming it on start up bugs and delays with the flexities can only go so long....they are separate jobs. If they cant sort themselves out they dont deserve the contract and should
be barred from future orders. In this same time it took from contract signing to ALMOST make 1 train, a 80+ Storey building was constructed..... 2 AIRCRAFT CARRIERS are almost done from scratch. FAIL BBR

Don't misunderstand me - BBD has screwed the pooch on this order (although not nearly as bad as the TTC order), and they're going to have to pay.

But it will take them quite a bit of time to get the first car together and to a point at which everyone is happy enough that it will be able to leave the factory. Don't forget, the first CEM BiLevel took almost a year of assembly before it was ready to leave the factory. They took a similar amount of time for the first Flexity for Toronto and the first TR.

Also, the analogy of the aircraft carriers is pretty poor, considering that neither of them will be ready for service until, what is it now, 2018?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cplchanb]

Don't misunderstand me - BBD has screwed the pooch on this order (although not nearly as bad as the TTC order), and they're going to have to pay.

But it will take them quite a bit of time to get the first car together and to a point at which everyone is happy enough that it will be able to leave the factory. Don't forget, the first CEM BiLevel took almost a year of assembly before it was ready to leave the factory. They took a similar amount of time for the first Flexity for Toronto and the first TR.

Also, the analogy of the aircraft carriers is pretty poor, considering that neither of them will be ready for service until, what is it now, 2018?

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

Considering the sheer size complexity scale of the Gerald Ford and the Queen Elizabeth, not to mention the fact that for the latter is built completely from scratch
with no prior deisgns to base off of, to be able to construct it at a faster rate already speaks volumes. But since we're comparing projects of the same timeframe, a HSR network from Beijing to Shanghai was completed in shorter time from scratch than
its taking them to get to where they are now.