News   May 09, 2024
News Roundup for May 9, 2024
 248     0 
News   May 09, 2024
Queen's Park Sunset Postcard
 517     1 
News   May 08, 2024
'Equinox Bridge' Selected to Span Port Lands' Keating Channel
 1.8K     4 

Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

APTA-2048 said:
Thanks. It seems like Metrolinx is pretty keen on having their identity represented on the LRVs. As far as I know, the current livery on the mock up is what will be used on the LRVs. I believe it's important that the TTC's branding is represented in some way as well given the LRT's connection to the system and fares. That's the reasoning behind the design I came up with.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it will be made pretty clear once it's running and poel see it in TTC stations plus I would imagine they would promote it on TTC maps and ride guides as they do the other TTC lines
 
Steve X said:
The SRT was always there. The Eglinton line will be new. I think there should be some sort of visible indication that this is a TTC service. Especially the surface section. If the want new users to find it. I wonder what Metrolinx will display at every surface stop. If the TTC logo is no where to be found on the stops, trains and tickets (since they own everything), new riders will questions if the line is part of the TTC. A common red colour will help.
Click to expand...
So a tourist, new to the city, is not confused by the all-blue Scarborough trains, but will be confused by the partially green Eglinton line trains with a TTC logo on it.

TheTigerMaster said:
Twice now when discussing the ECLRT with family, once they've seen green LRVs, I've been asked "why are the trains green", "is it TTC" and "can I pay TTC fare".
Click to expand...
Did you find there was any confusion when some of the subway trains were red, and some were silver?

Is there confusion when a streetcar is completely wrapped?

I'd think that no one is really going to care what colour the highlights are on the vehicle ... and the inclusion of the line on the subway map will make it very clear.
 
nfitz said:
So a tourist, new to the city, is not confused by the all-blue Scarborough trains, but will be confused by the partially green Eglinton line trains with a TTC logo on it.

Did you find there was any confusion when some of the subway trains were red, and some were silver?

Is there confusion when a streetcar is completely wrapped?

I'd think that no one is really going to care what colour the highlights are on the vehicle ... and the inclusion of the line on the subway map will make it very clear.
Click to expand...
No, because you board the SRT from a station, subway or bus. Do we know that a TTC logo will end up on the trains and stations? None of the rendering show a single TTC logo.
Not every city has one transit system running from one organization so the LRT can appear to be a different system.

There is already enough confusion at Union with the large TTC logo meaning subway. People don't know that a TTC logo means subway. I'll like to see thing more uniform instead of Metrolinx trying to advertise that they are paying for the LRT. Tourist do wonder if a wrapped bus is a TTC bus.
 
Steve X said:
No, because you board the SRT from a station, subway or bus. Do we know that a TTC logo will end up on the trains and stations? None of the rendering show a single TTC logo.
Click to expand...
TTC will be running the service. It's inconceivable that there wouldn't be TTC symbols at station entrances and on the trains.

[/quote]There is already enough confusion at Union with the large TTC logo meaning subway. People don't know that a TTC logo means subway.[/quote]They've been using TTC logos at subway entrances for over 60 years now - I think most people have figured it out.

And why would it say subway - you can catch the Harbourfront LRT at that station as well - or whatever they call it this week.
 
From this link:

Bombardier delays to TTC streetcars could hold up Metrolinx light rail

Bombardier’s troubles producing streetcars for the TTC are causing mounting concern at Metrolinx, which needs the manufacturer to come through on a $770-million vehicle order in time to open two new Toronto transit lines.

Light-rail projects along Eglinton and Finch Avenues are due to open in 2021. But there is increasing alarm at Metrolinx that this timeline could be threatened by delays getting vehicles. A prototype vehicle that was supposed to be delivered last year by Bombardier has not arrived, and time is beginning to run short.

Metrolinx spokeswoman Anne Marie Aikins said the transit agency remains “fairly confident” about meeting the scheduled timelines for the two projects. But there is little time to waste, since it could take years to work out bugs in the prototype and then have Bombardier produce the 182-vehicle order.

“We are at the point that we are concerned about the fact that we haven’t gotten our prototype yet,” she said. “We need to be getting it this year.”

Unlike the Toronto Transit Commission, which can refurbish old streetcars and continue to use them while waiting for Bombardier to finish its order, Metrolinx has no other vehicles to use on these lines. If the fleet is not ready by 2021, the projects cannot open on time.

A spokesman for Montreal-based Bombardier said he was confident that Metrolinx would get the prototype vehicle this year, and that the agency would receive the fleet it needs to open on time. Marc-André Lefebvre said that there were similarities between this and the TTC streetcar order, with both now being sped up.

“We are putting the final touches and looking at the final elements in all of our plans to accelerate the pace of delivery, and we’ll be communicating everything to our customers in the next few weeks,” he said.

The same promise is being made to the TTC, where executives are voicing outrage over the latest delays in getting their 204-streetcar order. Bombardier had originally promised 74 of the vehicles by the end of this year, a pledge that has repeatedly been reduced. The latest commitment is to have 30 of the new streetcars in Toronto by the close of 2016.

Although frustration and skepticism among Toronto politicians and TTC executives is palpable, there’s also a glimmer of hope that Bombardier is displaying some new-found realism – and admitting there are limits to its financial and product-delivery capabilities.

The recent decision by Quebec pension fund giant Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec to become a 30-per-cent owner of Bombardier’s train business, as well as the appointment of Alain Bellemare as chief executive of Bombardier Inc. last year, has brought a new focus on operational performance at the company after years of contract execution problems.

Less than a month after the Caisse announced its $1.5-billion (U.S.) investment in Bombardier Transportation on Nov. 19, the train unit’s global president was replaced. Earlier this month, the head of the unit’s Americas business, a finance specialist, was dismissed and replaced by an outsider with significant engineering and manufacturing experience.

That outsider, Benoît Brossoit, will be mandated to improve the company’s performance and competitiveness in the region, the company said. TTC chief executive officer Andy Byford, who said he was accustomed to hearing “hopelessly overoptimistic” or “heroic” promises, found a different tone when Mr. Brossoit arrived.

“In terms of making progress, it’s kind of perverse in a way, but there’s progress in that I think this new guy is at least giving me the worst-case scenario,” Mr. Byford said, describing a meeting Friday with the new Bombardier executive.
Click to expand...
 
Steve X said:
Thus the Eglinton, Finch West and Hurontario LRT lines all will look the same. Someone will question why they'll have different fare systems and no transfer discounts to GO Trains which are also Metrolinx trains. Unless of course Metrolinx changes their mind on the fare discount, that's something Queen's Park have to fund.
Click to expand...
They're currently doing a study on fare integration:
www.metrolinxengage.com/en/engagement-initiatives/fare-integration

The most interesting sub-page is this one:
www.metrolinxengage.com/en/content/fare-structure-concepts

Megaton327 said:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...2018-due-to-bombardier-train-delays-1.3597328

Flexity Freedom LRVs delayed for Waterloo's ION LRT, and have delayed its opening from late 2017 to early 2018. Doesn't bode well for the region's other lines. So much for all those saying the Outlook Streetcar problems won't affect Freedom LRVs...
Click to expand...
Ugh, no fun.
Hamilton LRT will hugely benefit during the 2018 election if Kitchener-Waterloo ION LRT begins running before the 2018 elections.
 
mdrejhon said:
At least partially. Things like Finch West LRT, Hurontario LRT and Hamilton LRT will force the discussion.
Click to expand...
Only politics will force the discussion.

People manage every day to ride the same models of buses in different cities without getting confused. They will be able to ride LRVs in different cities without confusion either.

Here are two largely white New Flyer buses from two different cities:
6716452873_d16ac1b895_b.jpg 9735242191_7e62fbc5e2_z.jpg
No one is going to be confused about what fare to use on each because they are in geographically different places, and never connect. Finch and Hamilton LRTs are entirely within their service zones, while Hurontario has an existing cross-border arrangement on the corridor. These lines will force discussion just as much as the Sheppard Subway did.

The only infrastructure project that is arguably helping force the discussion, is the Spadina Subway Expansion. It actually crosses a border. But so far, we're seeing that they're very adept as making sure that it fits, largely, the status quo.
 

Attachments

  • 6716452873_d16ac1b895_b.jpg
    6716452873_d16ac1b895_b.jpg
    307.1 KB · Views: 233
  • 9735242191_7e62fbc5e2_z.jpg
    9735242191_7e62fbc5e2_z.jpg
    160.3 KB · Views: 230
mdrejhon said:
At least partially. Things like Finch West LRT, Hurontario LRT and Hamilton LRT will force the discussion.
Click to expand...
Metrolinx has been saying that the fare system will be in full TTC control. Whatever fare collection system they decides to install in 2021 is to be installed. The operating agreement lets TTC operate the line as well as fare management to collect fares for the line. None of the Crosstown Staffs seem to know what that is at this time. We haven't heard words about any provincial operating subsidies yet which could spark a new fare integration dicussion.

Hurontario LRT and Hamilton LRT would be on a different boat. The P3 would include operation for 30 years similar to the ION and Edmonton line.
 
There may not be able to be full integration in five years, but a zero-add transfer will need to be implemented between the LRT and at least some of the local connecting bus routes. That in itself will be political, too...
 
Metrolinx threatens legal action over late delivery of light rail vehicles

Metrolinx issued a notice of default to Bombardier last week that claims the Quebec-based rail manufacturer is in breach of contract, according to a source.

From The Star, at this link.

Metrolinx is threatening legal action against Bombardier over production delays that the agency fears could derail the opening of two major Toronto transit projects, the Star has learned.

According to a source with knowledge of discussions between the two parties, Metrolinx issued a notice of default to Bombardier last week that claims the Quebec-based rail manufacturer is in breach of contract in its deal to supply the provincial organization with up to 182 light rail vehicles (LRVs).

The notice is a possible precursor to filing a claim for damages against Bombardier, which has yet to deliver a single LRV as part of the order.

The Star hasn’t seen the notice of default. The source spoke to the Star on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk publicly about the deal.

Bombardier spokesman Marc-André Lefebvre confirmed the company had received “a contractual notice” from the transit agency but, citing the terms of the contract, said he wouldn’t discuss any details.

Metrolinx placed the $770-million order in 2010 for vehicles to serve provincially-funded LRT lines that include Toronto’s Eglinton Crosstown, Finch Ave. West, and Sheppard Ave. East projects.

The first two lines are scheduled for completion by 2021. Metrolinx will require 76 LRVs for the $5.3-billion Crosstown and 23 LRVs for the $1.2-billion Finch project. The Sheppard LRT has been deferred indefinitely.

Bombardier was supposed to deliver the first pilot vehicle for testing in the spring of 2014. Metrolinx says that although that date was later revised to the spring of 2015, the agency is still waiting.

Metrolinx spokeswoman Anne Marie Aikins wouldn’t confirm the organization had issued a notice of default, saying merely that “Metrolinx is reviewing all of our options as set out in the contract and haven’t ruled anything out as yet.”

She told the Star in an email that Bombardier is now 21 months behind schedule, and she acknowledged that the organization is growing more apprehensive “with each passing day we do not receive the pilot vehicle.”

“Metrolinx has been concerned about Bombardier’s performance for some time as there have been significant quality and manufacturing issues that to date have not been resolved,” Aikins wrote. “We are very anxious to see a resolution given the opening of Eglinton Crosstown (and Finch LRT) in 2021.”

In an email to the Star, Lefebvre said that Bombardier is on track to deliver the vehicles in time for the LRT lines to begin service on schedule.

He said company plans to supply the first pilot vehicle next month, which would give the company 18 months to conduct vehicle testing that normally takes half that time. Full production of the fleet would begin in the spring of 2018.

In May, Bombardier announced changes to its production line that included shifting work on the LRVs from Mexico to its plant in La Pocatière, Que., dedicating its Kingston plant to assembling the vehicles, and adding another site to build the vehicles’ cab structures.

“Based on this timeline, and the strong production recovery plan it recently announced, Bombardier is confident that it will meet its commitments” to Metrolinx, Lefebvre said.

The Toronto LRT lines aren’t the only projects that have been impacted by Bombardier’s production woes.

The TTC’s 2009, $1.2-billion purchase of 204 new streetcars has also been plagued by delays. Under the terms of the original agreement, Bombardier was to have supplied 73 low-floor streetcars to the commission by the end of 2015, but it has only delivered 22 so far.

The commission is pursuing a claim for damages against the company worth about $50 million.

Earlier this year Waterloo Region was forced to postpone the opening date of its ION LRT to 2018, instead of late 2017 as originally planned, because of vehicle delays. Its order for a fleet of 14 LRVs is part of the larger Metrolinx contract.

Bombardier asserts that the already-announced production changes, which included having its Thunder Bay plant focus on building TTC streetcars, will also alleviate problems affecting the other projects.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top