Finch West Line 6 LRT

[W. K. Lis]

#CodeRedTO has put out an article (see link) on

Finch West LRT At Risk

The Finch West LRT:

• is fully-funded for construction from Humber College to the subway at Finch & Keele, and the province is contractually obligated to negotiate operating costs with the city.
• is already part of a signed legal contract between the city and Metrolinx.
• has a completed Environmental Assessment.
• would link up to the new subway extension at Finch West station.
• would bring dependable, higher-capacity, and faster transit to priority neighbourhoods and to wards 1 (Cllr Crisanti, over 61k population), 7 (Cllr Mammoliti, over 52k population), & 8 (Perruzza, over 50k population).
• was recommended by the Metrolinx Benefit Case Analysis (2009), Pembina Institute (2011, 2012), Sheppard Transit Expert Advisory Panel (2012) and the TTC (2013) for the Finch West and Sheppard East parts of our city
• was SUPPORTED by Councillor Mammoliti in 2009.
• would open in 2020!

THREE STEPS TO PROTECT FINCH WEST:
1. Email or call your councillor TODAY, and tell them you care about protecting modern light rail transit in wards 1, 7, and 8 and you’re watching their vote. (Even if you think your councillor already supports this, they need to hear from you. They can help inside council, but only if they think it’s important enough!) Note: Twitter doesn’t count for much unfortunately; a real phone call has far more impact!
2. Tell your friends on Facebook or in person about this issue and why cancelling this project would make transit worse in Etobicoke.
3. Email or call your Member of Provincial Parliament TODAY. They need to know that we care about this project, because politicians usually only hear complaints! Note: Twitter doesn’t count for much unfortunately; a real phone call has far more impact!
4. BONUS FOURTH STEP: write to CodeRedTO and tell us how your conversations went!
We Can Do This. But not without some effort. We need to show councillors that canceling the Finch West LRT would hurt Etobicoke, that cancellation is not wanted, and that cancellation is not “smartâ€. And we have to do it FAST – votes are coming surprisingly soon!

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Star also has a response, at this link:

Metrolinx confirms support for Finch LRT

Transit advocates fear, however, that Metrolinx will reverse its position if council votes against light rail.

Metrolinx says the $1 billion provincially funded Finch West LRT is still a go, even as fears mount among transit advocates that a new council may try to persuade the province to postpone or delay the line.

CodeRedTO, a pro-LRT group, sent its members a message Wednesday urging them to call or write their councillors and MPPs in support of Finch.

The email followed the latest threat by a city councillor to cancel the LRT. The Toronto Sun reported that councillor Giorgio Mammoliti (York West) wants council to kill the Finch project. That would allow mayor-elect John Tory to devote the funds to his SmartTrack transit plan.

CodeRedTo’s Cameron MacLeod said he’s worried the province would cancel the Finch and Sheppard East LRTs if council voted against them, in the same way it cancelled the Scarborough LRT in favour of a subway.

“There’s enough opposition and enough need for that $1 billion by the province that if council said, ‘Push it off,’ the province might take that money and run,” he said.

York Centre Councillor Maria Augimeri, who chairs the TTC board, said opposition by Mammoliti and councillor Vince Crisanti (Etobicoke North) may already have slowed progress on Finch.

“I know some representatives of Metrolinx have voiced their concern about municipal representatives along the Finch line casting aspersions on the LRT,” she said.

Tory acknowledged on Wednesday that the LRTs aren’t his priority.

“Transit decisions in this city will be made, of course, by the city council working with the province and the federal government, and I've indicated my top two work priorities, which are the Scarborough subway and SmartTrack,” he told reporters.

SmartTrack is Tory’s plan to electrify the Stouffville and Kitchener GO lines and run frequent service along them to relieve TTC crowding.

The Finch LRT is supposed to run 11 kilometres from the new Finch West subway stop to Humber College and already has an approved environmental assessment, completed in 2010.

The environmental study of a maintenance and storage facility for the light rail vehicles at Keele north of Finch isn’t complete, however.

Consultations on that part of the project began in July and were supposed to continue through the fall. But further community consultations were postponed due to the municipal election.

Metrolinx spokesperson Anne Marie Aikins says the public consultations are expected to be rescheduled early in the New Year. The scheduled 2020 completion date “isn’t necessarily impacted,” by the delay in the environmental assessment, she said.

She did not say how much money the province and TTC have already spent on the two projects.

Tens of millions of dollars have already been spent on the preliminary work, however.

Metrolinx has put the cost of cancelling the seven-stop Scarborough LRT, on which work had already been done, in favour of a three-stop subway, at about $85 million, money the city will be required to cover.

A longstanding agreement between the city and Metrolinx for the LRT has yet to be amended to reflect that change of plan. The same agreement governs the construction of the LRTs on Finch, Sheppard and the Eglinton Crosstown, which is already underway.

 

[salsa]

The Star also has a response, at this link:

Typical spineless non-commitment from John Tory. I'm not sure he cares if the LRTs get cancelled.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't really have a problem with spending the money another worthwhile transit project. On the other hand, FWLRT is a good one and I'm sick of the constant changing & cancellation of plans.

The constant cancellation is an indication that the wrong plans were chosen.

 

[Rainforest]

I think it comes down to that they don't know what they're missing. If the many low income people, single mothers, students, and other people likely to use transit in this neighbourhood - and there are a lot of them - knew that they could have comfortable and faster ride then the current jammed and slow buses, then I have zero doubt that they would prefer LRT.

Of course I also have serious doubts as to whether or not it is in fact those people who are opposing LRT, or instead Mammolitti, a councillor who is certainly far removed from the socio-economic daily reality of most of his constituents.

The "No" side is actually pretty thin; it basically consists of Mr. Mammoliti and the Emery Village Business Association.

I don't see any opposition to Finch LRT project amongst broader public, and hence it is unlikely that Metrolinx will cancel it.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Typical spineless non-commitment from John Tory. I'm not sure he cares if the LRTs get cancelled.

I really doubt it. He only expressed support for them going forward publicly during the election campaign after he was seriously caught and called out for having left them off of his map. That's no simple oversight, and this statement just confirms it.

The "No" side is actually pretty thin; it basically consists of Mr. Mammoliti and the Emery Village Business Association.

I don't see any opposition to Finch LRT project amongst broader public, and hence it is unlikely that Metrolinx will cancel it.

I sincerely hope you have the right of it. It's good to see Metrolinx reaffirm its support; let's just hope Mammoliti doesn't manage to sway any votes on council.

 

[nfitz]

The constant cancellation is an indication that the wrong plans were chosen.

I think it's more indication that Giorgio Mammoliti is a fool. Though given some of his previous motions, it's pretty clear the guy is quite likely mentally unstable.

What do you think is wrong with the Finch West plans? Other than making it longer, what would you differently? There's plenty of ROW for surface transit, and the ridership doesn't support the expense of grade separation?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think it's more indication that Giorgio Mammoliti is a fool. Though given some of his previous motions, it's pretty clear the guy is quite likely mentally unstable.

What do you think is wrong with the Finch West plans? Other than making it longer, what would you differently? There's plenty of ROW for surface transit, and the ridership doesn't support the expense of grade separation?

Why is your head in the sand? The voters put him back in. This is on them. How hard is it to call The Star and say Councillor G is wrong about Finch West?

 

[gweed123]

The "No" side is actually pretty thin; it basically consists of Mr. Mammoliti and the Emery Village Business Association.

I don't see any opposition to Finch LRT project amongst broader public, and hence it is unlikely that Metrolinx will cancel it.

If TO Council does somehow round up enough stupidity to vote to cancel this line, I sincerely hope Metrolinx diverts that money to building the Hurontario LRT. It would send a strong message that you don't dick around when someone has written you a cheque to cover an entire transit project. Let's see how much Mammo's constituents like him when he manages to move $1 billion in Provincial transit dollars from Toronto to Mississauga. That'll go over like a lead balloon.

Sorry, but I'm just absolutely fed up with this kind of crap. They might as well just install a giant wheel in City Hall with all of the transit projects listed on it, and every couple of months just spin it to see which project they're going to consider cancelling this time. Transit funding idea: Set up a betting station at Woodbine so that people can place bets on which project the wheel will land on this meeting. At least then you can say you've implemented a revenue tool.

 

[ssiguy2]

I fail to see why a Finch LRT would be in any way superior to a bus ROW a la York VIVA. It could be built in a fraction of the time, cause far less disruption during construction, be just as fast, and cost a fraction of ripping up all the streets, putting down rails, and putting up electrical wires. It also wouldn't require a special garage, just good old articulated buses.

 

[nfitz]

I fail to see why a Finch LRT would be in any way superior to a bus ROW a la York VIVA. It could be built in a fraction of the time, cause far less disruption during construction, be just as fast, and cost a fraction of ripping up all the streets, putting down rails, and putting up electrical wires. It also wouldn't require a special garage, just good old articulated buses.

Last time I checked, 3/2 is a fraction. The estimates for BRT aren't that much cheaper than LRT, and they require wider right-of-ways.

Buses also need specialized garages. Go check the cost for the McNicholl garage.

Your going to replace 60 metre to 90 metre trains with an 18-metre bus?

 

[drum118]

Last time I checked, 3/2 is a fraction. The estimates for BRT aren't that much cheaper than LRT, and they require wider right-of-ways.

Buses also need specialized garages. Go check the cost for the McNicholl garage.

Your going to replace 60 metre to 90 metre trains with an 18-metre bus?

BRT are cheaper to build than LRT and that is a given fact.

Where BRT is beaten is on the capital cost and operation cost similar to your comment.

The question becomes how many buses are going to be needed to move X riders compare to LRT? More buses you need means more overhead cost as you need more manpower to drive then, maintain and have a shorter life cycle than an LRV. On top of these requirements is the cost of the fuel to put the buses on the road, let alone batteries if they are hybird. You need 2 buses to move the same number of riders on one single car to the point you need 5 buses to carry the same number of riders on 2 cars mu with only 5 driver using the same headway. 5 to 1 driver for 1 shift x 2-3 shift a day is a huge cost saving over the year using LRT.

In the winter, buses will slide in the snow as well shifting from side to side for a rough ride while the LRT travels in a straight smooth line.

What gets me, we bitch about having LRT on a route carrying 25,000 riders where in the US they have LRT lines carrying less than 10,000 to the point only 5,000 on a weekday and less on the weekend with 10-15 headways.

I have done the math comparing BRT to LRT using various ridership, type of equipment on operation cost with LRT winning hands down with no skew numbers and using real cost of equipment base on tenders.

Streetcars built cites in the past and are doing so in many place they weren't removed to the point they are making a strong come back as buses can't do the job anymore.

 

[salsa]

I really doubt it. He only expressed support for them going forward publicly during the election campaign after he was seriously caught and called out for having left them off of his map. That's no simple oversight, and this statement just confirms it.

He did, however lets look at his latest statement in the Star article:

Tory acknowledged on Wednesday that the LRTs aren’t his priority.

“Transit decisions in this city will be made, of course, by the city council working with the province and the federal government, and I've indicated my top two work priorities, which are the Scarborough subway and SmartTrack,†he told reporters.

That doesn't sound like strong support at all.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The people who oppose this are probably mainly car drivers who don't want any money spent on public transit, especially if it is above ground. They are convinced it will slow down their cars.

I had this conversation with a friend in Scarborough. After he was advocating for subways only, he finally admitted that he really didn't care about public transit because he will never use it. It's basically pure and simple selfishness. These people never realize that bad public transit does effect them and will only lead to worse traffic on the street.

Even if the LRT did slow down my commute as a driver, I'd be sure to support it because I know that it will improve the commutes of so many otheds. I'll never understand the selfish attitudes of so many people in this city. It's all about them without regard for the well being of othes.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I really doubt it. He only expressed support for them going forward publicly during the election campaign after he was seriously caught and called out for having left them off of his map. That's no simple oversight, and this statement just confirms it.



I sincerely hope you have the right of it. It's good to see Metrolinx reaffirm its support; let's just hope Mammoliti doesn't manage to sway any votes on council.

Of course he doesn't care. He made that pretty clear in his campaign, as you said.