Waterloo Region Transit Developments (ION LRT, new terminal, GRT buses)

[Markster]

Sept 18 - Looks like a big push is on to wrap up a lot of work as the summer ends.
IMG_1653 by ION Construction, on Flickr


Zone speeds posted on Waterloo Spur section. These are MPH, right? I hope...
IMG_1687 by ION Construction, on Flickr

Word here is that no, it's KPH. These are street running vehicles, and for street running, their odometer is going to be in KPH. And so the spur is signed as such.

Underpinnings for railbed (?) in Uptown Waterloo
IMG_1703 by ION Construction, on Flickr

It's a rather epic foundation for the entire station platform.
This all used to be marshland, so the soil isn't the most stable.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Word here is that no, it's KPH. These are street running vehicles, and for street running, their odometer is going to be in KPH. And so the spur is signed as such.

Subways in Toronto usually run between 50 and 60 KPH on the longer sections between stations.

 

[W. K. Lis]

You can see the cars passing the subway trains on the Allen Road... until the southbound traffic jams south of Lawrence West Station.

 

[smallspy]

Why wouldn't they? Our roads are in metric so why wouldn't they be the same?

The same should then be asked of our waterways, because they operate in imperial as well.

The answer lies in who our biggest trading partner is, and the amount of trans-border trading we do.

Word here is that no, it's KPH. These are street running vehicles, and for street running, their odometer is going to be in KPH. And so the spur is signed as such.

I can assure you that it's MPH. That's a standard speed limit sign for railway equipment.

If that was meant to be KM/H, then they're going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see the freight trains blow by at that speed, because that sign, whether intentional or not, will be interpreted by them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[ShonTron]

The same should then be asked of our waterways, because they operate in imperial as well.

The answer lies in who our biggest trading partner is, and the amount of trans-border trading we do.



I can assure you that it's MPH. That's a standard speed limit sign for railway equipment.

If that was meant to be KM/H, then they're going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see the freight trains blow by at that speed, because that sign, whether intentional or not, will be interpreted by them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I'm surprised, then, that two speeds aren't posted on that sign, as they commonly are on shared freight/passenger corridors (top, usually a higher speed, for passenger trains, bottom for freight).

 

[Transportfan]

The same should then be asked of our waterways, because they operate in imperial as well.

Speed limits on the Trent-Severn Waterway are in kms. Are shipping waterways different?

 

[drum118]

This what happens when one doesn't do a full conversion to metric 100%.

The US has refused to go metric and it doesn't help the RR crews going into the US if we were metric.

Even driving your car into the US is an issue trying to figure where your speed should be at.

 

[W. K. Lis]

This what happens when one doesn't do a full conversion to metric 100%.

The US has refused to go metric and it doesn't help the RR crews going into the US if we were metric.

Even driving your car into the US is an issue trying to figure where your speed should be at.

In the U.S., it's the same reason why they haven't gotten rid of the paper dollar bill or their pennies. They don't like changing things.

 

[smallspy]

I'm surprised, then, that two speeds aren't posted on that sign, as they commonly are on shared freight/passenger corridors (top, usually a higher speed, for passenger trains, bottom for freight).

I guess they don't feel it necessary to have two different speed limits. Witness the majority of the Grimsby Sub....

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[reaperexpress]

I can assure you that it's MPH. That's a standard speed limit sign for railway equipment.

If that was meant to be KM/H, then they're going to be in for a very rude awakening when they see the freight trains blow by at that speed, because that sign, whether intentional or not, will be interpreted by them.

While you're correct that the logical interpretation of this sign is "50 mph", it is definitely meant to indicate 50 km/h given what we know of the speed limits on the line (50 and 70).

I agree that this is a terrible way of conveying that information given that the line is also used by mainline (i.e. national network) freight trains which operate in mph using the same style of signs. From what I've heard, the limit for freight trains will be 25 mph (40 km/h).

Here's how I would have signed the speed limit: use the standard passenger/freight railway signs in mph, and add a non-standard sign in km/h for LRT drivers. This is a similar design to the metrication attempts in the US - the MUTCD specifies a black circle to distinguish metric speed limits.

45 mph (passenger), 25 mph (freight), 70 km/h (LRT)

And as a side note, I've also thought that in Canada we should be using the red-circle style of speed limit sign like the entire rest of the world, to distinguish from the American signs which look the same as ours but are in mph. This picture sums up how silly it was to switch to metric without switching the style of speed limit sign:

Image: User Kelisi on Wikipedia

 

[smallspy]

While you're correct that the logical interpretation of this sign is "50 mph", it is definitely meant to indicate 50 km/h given what we know of the speed limits on the line (50 and 70).

I agree that this is a terrible way of conveying that information given that the line is also used by mainline (i.e. national network) freight trains which operate in mph using the same style of signs. From what I've heard, the limit for freight trains will be 25 mph (40 km/h).

A limit of 25mph makes infinitely more sense considering the alignment and the speeds up there prior to the construction.

However if they don't change the signs soon, they will run into problems. Right now, there are lots of slow orders on the line that overrule any speed limit signs. Once they are gone, the line will be back to operating by DOB and wayside signage.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Markster]

Confirmation from GrandLinq:

https://twitter.com/Canardiain/status/783015252082454529

The signs are km/h

Considering this is a spur owned by the Region of Waterloo, and there is only a single freight customer on the line, which will be running time-restricted deliveries in the middle of the night, I don't think we're going to end up with freight crews who didn't get the memo.

 

[felix123]

Confirmation from GrandLinq:

The signs are km/h

Oh thank goodness! If I see or hear one more folksy/"if it was good enough for my great grandpappy!" non-metric anything in Canada, I'll eat my 38 litre hat. I've even noticed CTV Montréal converting the temperature to Fahrenheit, for no apparent reason. The unwillingness in this country to complete the switch shows how averse our mainstream is to positive, rational change. Two countries who did it without drama: New Zealand and Australia. Even the regional folk there speak almost exclusively in metric. And please don't start with something about how the US is right next door. Who cares? We can multiply and divide for trading purposes.

Oh, and go Kitchener-Waterloo LRT, go! Are there any updates on phase II at this point?

 

[Markster]

Oh, and go Kitchener-Waterloo LRT, go! Are there any updates on phase II at this point?

Not really any news in a while.
There was a public consultation nearly a year ago:
http://rapidtransit.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/projectinformation/Stage-2-ION.asp

I've heard rumors that, behind the scenes, Alignment N2 from this page was leading, thanks to it avoiding several expensive rail grade separations.* Despite being an absurdly dumb routing. It has "justification" thanks to running through "prime developable land".


* Unlike the Waterloo Spur, the rail lines in south Kitchener/Cambridge need to accommodate double-stack containers, so at-grade crossings were ruled out completely.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Oh thank goodness! If I see or hear one more folksy/"if it was good enough for my great grandpappy!" non-metric anything in Canada, I'll eat my 38 litre hat. I've even noticed CTV Montréal converting the temperature to Fahrenheit, for no apparent reason. The unwillingness in this country to complete the switch shows how averse our mainstream is to positive, rational change. Two countries who did it without drama: New Zealand and Australia. Even the regional folk there speak almost exclusively in metric. And please don't start with something about how the US is right next door. Who cares? We can multiply and divide for trading purposes.

Oh, and go Kitchener-Waterloo LRT, go! Are there any updates on phase II at this point?

Mexico is metric.