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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto

crs1026 said:
What I find so appalling in this government is not that they lie - all politicians do some of that - but how clueless they are at saying things without thinking through the potential consequences.
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When people say all politicians lie...it usually means "they all make promises that they don't keep"....and to some extent that is true and, actually, kind of acceptible....because you promise things based on a "in a perfect world if all goes according to plan this is what we will do" kind of scenario....and not everything you promised/hoped to do ends up being feasible or, even, best. As I said, what is particularly galling about this government is this penchant for trying to go back and rewriting history and denying they ever promised it in the first place.

Contrast this to, say, Justin Trudeau backing away from electoral reform......he changed his mind, he admitted it and lived with the fallout.......he didn't go back and say "well, I never promised reform in the first place".
 
From the article:
“Mr. Collenette recently tabled his report with us and we look forward to providing an update on this important project in the very near future,” Matthews said in the late-day statement.
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I wonder how long the report has been sitting on the "table" and when it'll be made public? Are they still paying Collenette or was he just paid to do the report? Lots of questions. Also, I wonder if the entire report will be made public including a list of people/groups/companies Collenette spoke with.
 
TOareaFan said:
Contrast this to, say, Justin Trudeau backing away from electoral reform......he changed his mind, he admitted it and lived with the fallout.......he didn't go back and say "well, I never promised reform in the first place".
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Now when he said the only way to the Aga Khan's island is via a private helicopter and then he sent staff to the same island at the same time on a commercial seaplane....that's a lie.

Politicians think they are too smart. That's why there's populists backlashes. Who wants to hear someone talking in half-truth's for years (and never delivering)? They'd rather have someone who tries hard and fails than someone who thinks the most important and interesting person in the world is them self.
 
Say what? Justin was a populist that won. Yet he is full of himself with all the missed promises -- $10B deficits, balanced budgets and eliminating FPTP elections.

People will always vote for false promises. Few understand that when politicians promise something during the election it's to get their vote and support. Governing is much more complex.
 
crs1026 said:
I never really believed this was going to happen, because a) even in 2014 I saw Wynne as a lying opportunist in the McGinty tradition; but also because b) having made the promise, nothing was ever done to get this moving. Placing the project under MOT, rather than ML, and the Collenette mission (a toe-in-the-water strategy if there ever was one) seemed to keep this out of the hands of anyone who would push it forward. Del Duca has always been mute on the topic. If Murray actually had an interest in HSR, it left the portfolio when he dId.

What I find so appalling in this government is not that they lie - all politicians do some of that - but how clueless they are at saying things without thinking through the potential consequences. I can't believe that Colenette's analysis would have slammed HSR - nor would he have found a strong anti HSR sentiment. There would be public skepticism and sticker aversion, true, but the business and political communities in both KW and London are in favour. So while QP was never serious about it, they have painted themselves into a corner all the same.

Having said that, the concept is comparable to a kettle that never boils but never gets taken off the burner either. Matthews' comments clearly suggest that the heat has been turned down, but that could change. There are elections coming, and the allegation that the Liberals are warm to KW and cool to London is a hot button - just look at how that tactic played out in Scarborough.

- Paul
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Well...at least we did find Waldo. Collenette is still in hiding...and as to the HSR....I'm just so shocked I tell you...
 
TOareaFan said:
Contrast this to, say, Justin Trudeau backing away from electoral reform......he changed his mind, he admitted it and lived with the fallout.......he didn't go back and say "well, I never promised reform in the first place".
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It's even worse than that. Effectively, we're being told:
[Hey, both our hands had crossed fingers, and we never said "Simon Says" so it's your fault if you believed it]

Again, I'm just so shocked...Now about that Pearson Hub claim of "HSR"....folks, you don't need having it pointed-out that the entire report is just as wacky...
I'm still trying to figure out if McCuaig had his fingers crossed, both hands, when he stated: (gist) "This is a prime example of the kind of project the Infrastructure Bank should consider".

Let me add a proviso to that....: "That should be rejected to show that we're not idiots. Now we can move on with serious and believable ones like HFR".

If you want to glance through an incredible fantasy fiction, read the Pearson Hub Report. They almost had me fooled initially, until I read the freakin' thing. I'd rather talk to a hot water heater salesman...hell of a lot more believable.

As for the "Report": It was hundreds of pages of
"All work and no play makes David a dull boy." Apologies to Stephen King:
 
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Fritter said:
Apparently there is an appending announcement forthcoming.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/all-aboard...-from-toronto-to-london-and-windsor-1.3384848
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They found Waldo! Great heads-up Fritter.

I've got to post the entire piece because the devil's in the details:
CTV London
Published Tuesday, April 25, 2017 6:44PM EDT


CTV News has learned about a possible high-speed rail line connecting Toronto to communities in the GTA and beyond to London and Windsor.

In weeks, details of a study that recommends building a high speed line from Toronto to Windsor will be revealed.

It's called the Collenette Report, named after the author of the study, former federal Transport Minister David Collenette.

He was hired by Kathleen Wynne 18 months ago to do a detailed study on a high speed rail line from Toronto to Waterloo, then London and eventually Windsor.

This intercity connection between Toronto, the GTA and southwestern Ontario is considered key in developing the potential economy of southern Ontario.

Wynne gave her support to the project at an event Tuesday morning. She says it would be phased-in over time.

The transport minister tells CTV News that it wouldn't be high-speed the entire route because of geography.

The project would be part of the $130-billion Ontario is spending on infrasctucture over 10 years.

It's believed the federal government would provide funding as well.

Full details of the proposal is expected to come in May.
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OK, I had a bit of a startle there initially, until realizing what's going on here...or most likely going on: This is going to be announced as part of the HFR Toronto to London leg, which has a pending announcement coming soon itself.

There won't be any true "high-speed" sections (above 200 kph) but there will be 'sections' where speeds will hit 125 mph = 200 kph. It will be couched in 'provisos' and 'caveats' and be as slippery as wet wheels on slick rails.

I guess Wynne sent Waldo to find Collenette, she needed to butter up her election promises. Collenette will have to do for now...
 
Didn't we just finish arguing about this? In the last election they promised to study it. They studied it. This is the study. Granted, it was promised for last fall and seems to have gone awol. It could have been delayed because it's hard, because some of it doesn't look so good, or because it's more useful to bring it out, as suggested, before an election when it will be more promisey.
 
Wynne's comment that it will be phased in over time is interesting.

One would hope that might allow some money spent on fundamentals in the near term. Incremental improvements would be welcome.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Wynne's comment that it will be phased in over time is interesting.

One would hope that might allow some money spent on fundamentals in the near term. Incremental improvements would be welcome.

- Paul
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They say 10 years with the hope of the feds giving money for it as well part of the 10 year $130 Billion funds by Wynne.

I guess the next step for either Metrolinx or Queen Park is to buy the line from Kitchener to London. Getting from London to Windsor will be fun as to which line they choses, as well who is willing to allow it without building a new line. Most of all it will be electric and we know where the RR stand on it is today.

Any hope of seeing 250-300 km/hr line are a dream without any new ROW being built for it. Most likely be 150-200 km/hr with some sections being about 125.

Unless some serious money is invested for Guelph, a major pinch point for the HLR, as well GO. Grade separation will have to take place in many locations.

10-20 years to hit Windsor as plan
 
salsa said:
How convenient that they used this to win votes in the last election, then did just about nothing during their entire term of office, and only now they decide to revive it just in time for the upcoming election.
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Yep. Fool me once.....
 
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