Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

It's definitely interesting to theorize what could've been had Hamilton accepted a light metro. It probably would've been a white elephant, but I think if Lake Shore ALRT or some kind of high-speed RER were built as was promised, then Hamilton could've seen a major condo boom in their downtown around the same time as Toronto's. There's no question the city has huge potential, but I believe proper investment in LSW would've been necessary for its success.
 
44 North said:
It's definitely interesting to theorize what could've been had Hamilton accepted a light metro. It probably would've been a white elephant, but I think if Lake Shore ALRT or some kind of high-speed RER were built as was promised, then Hamilton could've seen a major condo boom in their downtown around the same time as Toronto's. There's no question the city has huge potential, but I believe proper investment in LSW would've been necessary for its success.
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Agreed. Hamilton needs two things to happen:

i) Become a very livable, highly desirable location to live
ii) GO-RER / very frequent and very rapid transportation between Toronto and Hamilton.

The second is underway already, and the first will helped be achieved with the construction of the LRT. Hamilton is otherwise well positioned for success, with a potential for a revitalized and desirable downtown and waterfront. Hopefully the city in the 21st century will become the competitive younger brother of Toronto keeping us on our toes that Mississauga can never hope to be.
 
DonValleyRainbow said:
The discrepancy between Detroit and Vancouver is probably more owed to alignment and location. The DPM is a dinky little loop in downtown Detroit, a downtown that has been hollowed out and has little life to it. The Skytrain is a broad reaching system in a west coast environment where people are active and outgoing.
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Downtown Detroit hasn't been as lively as it is since the 1960s. New office construction, renovations to many buildings (including two long-abandoned hotels), the casinos, the new condos and apartments going in, the downtown ballpark and football stadium, the new parks. The DPM serves the parts of the city seeing an upswing. But it's generally faster to walk between many destinations along the route; proposed expansions were never built. (If built out, it would look more like Miami's Metromover.) The M-1 streetcar line will be the more useful route.

It should be said tht outside of Downtown, Corktown, and the Midtown/Wayne State University areas, though, Detroit is still declining. There's lots of big money and gentrifying hipsters reviving the area bounded by M-10, I-94, I-75/375 and the Detroit River, but apart from this (and the Corktown and Mexicantown neighbourhoods), Detroit keeps falling.

The Hamilton ICTS line might have been useful enough if it acted like a modern equivalent of the funiculars that used to operate, connecting the streetcar system in the lower city to the Mountain, but it wouldn't have saved downtown in the 1980s/1990s slump that saw Eaton's abandon its mall, the Lister Block abandonment, and so on. The city wasn't eager to invest in its transit either; it allowed the once-dominant and super-frequent trolley bus network to deteriorate; diesel buses on the 1-King and 2-Barton are still less frequent than the trolleys that they replaced.
 
WislaHD said:
Hopefully the city in the 21st century will become the competitive younger brother of Toronto keeping us on our toes that Mississauga can never hope to be.
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The type of commercial development Mississauga is much more similar to Toronto than Hamilton's i.e. Hamilton is more blue collar. Unless that changes there is very little hope of this happening. I've not seen anything so far to suggest that there is going to be an explosion of service/financial sector jobs in Hamilton even with the LRT. Where as in Mississauga there are currently many service/financial sector jobs, and with the LRT its expected to grow even more. While traditionally a suburb, Mississauga like other cities in the GTA is adopting an urban model, so what then will push Hamilton to become "the competitive younger brother of Toronto keeping us on our toes that Mississauga can never hope to be."?
 
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When I think about sustainable growth potential Hamilton it's generally as an opportunity to be a hub for the southwest to the east rather than being a further out version of Burlington, facing north. Building the GO train layover in St Catharines as opposed to Lewis would have given Hamilton a credible commuter service with the LRT bringing people from the station to various destinations in Hamilton. But I wonder if politicians in Niagara Falls didn't care for that because that would push the urgency to build a Welland Canal tunnel back substantially...
 
Good ongoing discussion!
zenmeister said:
While traditionally a suburb, Mississauga like other cities in the GTA is adopting an urban model, so what then will push Hamilton to become "the competitive younger brother of Toronto keeping us on our toes that Mississauga can never hope to be."?
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There is raging local debate of urbanizing along the LRT corridor. We have a motion that resists this, but half of the council is opposed. The LRT corridor plans also include improvements such as wider/revitalized sidewalks.

I would even go so far as argue that central Hamilton now has pockets of more walkable neighbourhoods. James St N and even Internatinal Village along King William, to Locke St. James St N is kind of like Queen Street West. You do not even have that in Mississauga. On another hand, Mississauga is more like Toronto with some new high density builds and densities-suburb progression. But as you can see, Hamilton has pockets more similar to other parts of Toronto, if you have been to specific parts OUTSIDE driving a car n ugly Skyway / Main / King. We are also a City of Waterfalls, and nice trails more similar to those found in Toronto than Mississauga. But you gotta step away from the low density car arteries (unfortunate 50s mentality which Hamilton is slowly fixing)

Both of you are right.....for different reasons.
 
You're right Hamilton has been cleaned up quite a bit over the last few years but it has ways to go. Mississauga too is going through a slow path toward urbanization. But for who say Mississauga is devoid of urbanity, its a claim that's a little extreme, places like Port Credit and Streetsville while small are pretty walkable. The lake front is being revitalized and the Lakeview neighbourhood will be home to a new urban midrise community. Hamilton does have some beautiful natural landscape, like the falls and the trails. Mississauga can't compete with Hamilton's abundance in this regard, but the Credit River and the trails along in it Mississauga are quite beautiful as well.

The Lakeview Master Plan: http://www7.mississauga.ca/Departme...downloads/Inspiration-Lakeview-Masterplan.pdf

As I was also saying though there is also a huge commercial/business component that the city will be adding with service jobs and business that will move in along the Hurontario corridor.

I don't want to take the thread off topic. I think Hamilton has a lot of potential, but the city isn't quite there yet.
 
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zenmeister said:
I don't want to take the thread off topic. I think Hamilton has a lot of potential, but the city isn't quite there yet.
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Lots are improving, but lots need to be done. It will take time. It's a really long progression. The LRT will be genesis of urbanization over the next 25 years. In the LRT plans is a complete-streets style plan with wider sidewalks involved, the 2011 "blueprints" show this. Today, when you walk between Gage Park and Downtown -- 30 minutes apart -- you often have to walk on unacceptably narrow 1.5-meter-wide sidewalks inches away from speeding cars. The LRT will punch a much more people-friendly crosstown corridor through the City.

There is tension between the urbanization movement and the car-culture, but less than 10 years ago.

These will have to co-exist for a long time, but there is a LOT of room to re-urbanize parts of Hamilton after its long-term hollowing out.

I wasn't actually expecting much when I first moved to Hamilton, but I'm pleased at various elements already beginning to occur including the successful Cannon cycle track petition (cycle track got installed last year, complete with green paint elements like bike boxes) as well as the successful SoBi bikeshare system that is about to undergo an expansion next year (more coverage, more bikes, more racks). And even our favourite suburban councillor (Terry Whitehead) that is often an opponent of cyclists, Terry, is now asking for a protected cycle track on the Claremont Access -- the first direct cycle track up the escarpment. (Unfortunately, as a reaction to Mr. Keddy's recent death, but it is starting an important conversation why we have so many urban expressways all over the place, that need taming and safety improvements).
 
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ham_LRT tweeted this approximation.

The curve is probably different, but this is to demonstrate that Cathedral Park would be mostly spared by this LRT bridge.

Pros/cons also include eliminating the need to expropriate any buildings through Westdale and speeding up the LRT route from McMaster, but also missing the opportunity to install an LRT station on Paradise near the Food Basics supermarket (possible lost densification opportunity).


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Adjei said:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6221630-lrt-gets-on-track-at-go-station/
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Good catch. Thanks!

Excerpt:
TheSpec said:
..."Hamilton's $1-billion light rail transit project has a home.

Most members of the fledgling LRT team made up of city and Metrolinx officials started moving into the fourth floor of the Hunter Street GO Station this week.

Within a few months, the expanding team will also take over the fifth floor of the provincially owned heritage station, said David Dixon, the city's transit head."...
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The initial Hamilton LRT office opening on the 4th floor of the GO station -- to begin with.
Plus a separate public-facing space in a higher-traffic area for general public to visit.
 
The Hamilton LRT advocacy group is now going to visit several community groups and hubs to get people talking about the 2011 plans again.

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Many people aren't aware of the LRT plan templates, so they are going to be projected on a projector & also printed in large format for people to crayon/marker comment all over. The aim is to get people talking, whether the tough stuff like Main 2-way, to simple side topics like the wider sidewalks / sidewalk trees already in the LRT plans in some sections, etc.
 
Here's some examples of the dramatic changes to the corridor.

The PDF on the 2011 City of Hamilton Submission to Metrolinx loads really slowly, so I've made some PNG screenshots of some of the LRT plan templates:





It was mentioned that although changes will be made, a lot of these plans will be reused in the now-funded LRT.

I observe many side improvements, such as "Widen Sidewalk to 2.5 meter" in many of these.
 
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