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GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

Still say we are in the dark ages pretaining to rolling stock and time to get into the 21st.
An excellent analogy is in cars: The smaller, lighter car of today is *vastly safer* in a collision today than years past. And within reason, size and weight don't matter. The tanks of yesterday were dangerous killers relative to today's ones.
 
Remember through european engines are far lighter than the ones we use in North America. You would never see an engine in europe pulling a train the length we have here. The UK is only just starting to think of 12 car trains apparently. Go Transit has been running them for a few years now. Via still needs two or three engines to pull the Canadian we need our rail cars to be big and beefy because the engines that pull them and that they will share the tracks with are big and beefy.
 
The UK is only just starting to think of 12 car trains apparently.
You would never see an engine in europe pulling a train the length we have here.
Well here's ten that go a hell of a lot faster, as well as 11-12 coaches, and some have been running for well over a decade:
28 November 2013

Europe is witnessing a surge in high-speed rail services, with rail operators across the continent ordering some of the world's fastest trains such as the AGV Italo and Velaro E. Bombardier's Frecciaross 1000 will topple other high-speed trains on the continent with its blazing speeds of up to 400kmph. Railway-technology.com lists Europe's 10 fastest high-speed trains.[...]
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature-the-10-fastest-high-speed-trains-in-europe/

Remember through european engines are far lighter than the ones we use in North America. You would never see an engine in europe pulling a train the length we have here.
Are you referring to passenger or freight? For passenger, the the Europeans far outdo North Am in terms of power and speed.

For instance (although the FRA interfered to neuter the TGV aspect of the Acela, by almost doubling the weight by making it meet regs that are now redundant)
[A consortium led by Canadian firm Bombardier who had North American rights for Alstom's TGV technology won with its design against competition from Siemens, which demonstrated a version of its German ICE and ABB, which shipped in a Swedish version of the X2000.]
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/amtrak/

If you are referring to freight, *length* of trains is *typically* longer in North Am, Australia and some other nations, but the individual locos aren't any more powerful. In fact, the UK and some other nations are using Class 66 GMDs assembled in London, Ontario. It's now the default freight loco in the UK, albeit some German made locos are now the most powerful there. The days of North Am traction-power advantage are long gone, North Am operators demand flexibility in loco power, not ultimate strength like in the late Sixties and prior.

On the FRA and their hypocritical stance, ostensibly now finally changing (and of course, TC will sheepishly have to follow):
Wednesday, April 24, 2013
11 Comments
FRA Responds: Amtrak Will Be Able to Use “Proven” Trainsets
by Tanya Snyder

On Monday, we featured a Systemic Failure post about FRA regulations in our morning round-up from the Streetsblog Network. Systemic Failure indicated — and Streetsblog repeated — that the FRA was unwilling to change its rules to allow Amtrak to use “off-the-shelf” trainsets and other equipment.

The Systemic Failure post consists almost entirely of the FRA’s own words, from its final rule on high-speed safety standards. Still, FRA says we got it wrong.

In an email statement yesterday, agency spokesperson Kevin Thompson said:

The FRA and Amtrak are working very closely and cooperatively with each other and worldwide train manufactures through the Rail Safety Advisory Committee (RSAC) to achieve a consensus on safety design standards. There is unanimous consensus on the path forward with all of our stakeholders, including Amtrak, all international railcar manufacturers and other partners. Together through the RSAC process we are writing safety standards will allow proven trainsets used in other countries to operate in the U.S. market. Our process is and has always been a fluid and iterative process. Collectively, our goal is to establish and implement safety standards that are appropriate for U.S. operating environments so that passengers, employees and communities along rail routes are and remain safe.

It’s hard to reconcile this with the agency’s final rule refusing to change the previous rule that resulted in expensive, custom-made Acela trains, but it’s good to hear from FRA that the agency is working toward a solution that might lower costs. Still, “proven trainsets used in other countries” could mean many things. Readers, are you reassured?
http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/04/24/fra-responds-amtrak-will-be-able-to-use-proven-trainsets/

GO has already made preferences known on what is desired. The question isn't 'if'...it's 'how', and temporal separation and Positive Train Control will satisfy and *exceed* present safety standards.
 
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Addendum to above:
Long Barred from American Tracks, European Train Designs Could Get Rolling by 2015
By Stephen J. Smith | October 31, 2013

10248234266_2a026475eb_b_920_690_80.jpg

Credit: Trevor on Flickr

For decades, the Federal Railroad Administration had effectively banned modern European trains from American mainline rail networks. European and Asian manufacturers have been slimming down their rolling stock for years to improve performance — energy efficiency, braking and acceleration, even track and train maintenance — while U.S. transit agencies were stuck with bulked-up versions of sleek European cars, weighted down and otherwise modified to meet FRA regulations.

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The Acela, on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor, was perhaps the most notorious victim of the old rules. David Gunn once called it a “high-velocity bank vault” for its bulky design, and many attributed its maintenance woes to its untested design, customized to meet U.S. safety regulations. But every commuter and intercity train has to comply with the rules, and most suffer, to one degree or another, from high costs and poor performance.

But not for much longer. Beginning in 2015, regulators and manufacturers expect the FRA to allow modern European designs on tracks throughout the country, running side by side with heavy freight at all times of day. There will be no special signaling requirements for trains purchased under the new rules, although a separate requirement for more advancing anti-collision signaling, called positive train control, is set to kick in around the same time.

Crash safety reform has been slowly building at the FRA for more than a decade, and until now modern European designs were only available to agencies that could endure an onerous waiver process, and only if they could keep other trains off the tracks during service hours. Transit agencies could apply to the FRA for an exemption, but they had to submit detailed engineering analyses and could not run freight or so-called “non-compliant passenger trains” — that is, lightweight European and Asian models, more like subway and light rail cars than bulky intercity equipment — at the same time. Railroads in Europe and Asia are not subject to conditions like these.

“It’ll take a while to get the [new] regulations in place,” said Robert Lauby, associate administrator for railroad safety and chief safety officer at the FRA. The new rules have already been drafted and now await approval from various federal agencies, followed by a period of public review. Many in the industry don’t expect significant revisions to what the FRA’s safety committee has already drafted, and Lauby suggested that the new rules should clear the final hurdles sometime in 2015.

The new rules have flown somewhat under the radar, with even experts specializing in commingled freight and passenger operation doubting how complete the reform will be. “I’m not shocked [to hear of the new rules],” said one university researcher, “but I don’t totally believe that you would see it by 2015.”

Alois Starlinger, head of structural analysis, testing and certification at Swiss rail car manufacturer Stadler, was more optimistic. The new rules, he said, would allow agencies to purchase equipment that’s nearly off the shelf, with only small modifications. (Starlinger was deeply involved with the engineering task force that wrote the new rules.)

Stadler will likely have a first-mover advantage under the new rules, as the company has worked out what slight differences will remain between the new American standards and European ones. It has already sold rail cars to a number of systems under the current waiver process, including to the Denton County Transportation Authority’s A-train, outside Dallas. Additionally, Stadler hopes to sell trains under the new rules, which wouldn’t require a waiver, to another upcoming rail system in the Metroplex — the Cotton Belt Rail Line, which will provide service between Dallas’ northeastern suburbs and Southwest Fort Worth, via the Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport.

The rule change is the result of a confluence of factors. The FRA has edged toward reform since at least the early 2000s with its waiver process, and some have suggested that the Obama administration’s push for high-speed rail — true high-speed service, not the “higher-speed” Acela variant — helped move things along.

Even the researcher skeptical of the depth of the new changes noted a generational shift in attitudes at the FRA. “The administration has changed a great deal,” she said. “Some of the people who were diehards opposed to [reform] have retired, and we’re certainly seeing a new generation.”

“The will of the FRA, and especially Bob Lauby, to allow for alternative compliance has been a great development,” Starlinger said. “Before that, all foreign designs were completely blocked. But we’ve gained a lot of experience with this type of safe operation in Europe over the last 30 years.”

“The old requirements — the conservative FRA approach — go back to the 1920s,” he said. “It’s a very old code. We think it’s time to introduce something more sophisticated.”

The Works is made possible with the support of the Surdna Foundation.

Stephen J. Smith is a reporter based in New York. He has written about transportation, infrastructure and real estate for a variety of publications including New York Yimby, where he is currently an editor, Next City, City Lab and the New York Observer.
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/modern-european-train-designs-american-tracks-2015-fra
 
Noticed this today:

Bombardier Awarded Contract for the Supply of 125 BiLevel Cars to Metrolinx

August 2, 2016BerlinTransportation, Press Release

Rail technology leader Bombardier Transportation announced today that Metrolinx, the Province of Ontario’s regional transportation agency for the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area (GTHA), has exercised options for the purchase of an additional 125 next-generation BOMBARDIER BiLevel commuter rail cars for service with GO Transit in Toronto. This order is valued at $428 million CAD ($328 million US, 294 million euro). Production is scheduled to start in Thunder Bay in Q2, 2018 and final delivery is expected in Q1, 2020.

“Bombardier is Thunder Bay’s largest private sector employer. This investment, the latest in a long series of investments by our government in mass transit will help ensure that a significant workforce remains at Bombardier contributing greatly to the economy of Thunder Bay and Northwestern Ontario,” said Bill Mauro, MPP for Thunder Bay-Atikokan.

“This is exciting news for Bombardier and our region,” said Michael Gravelle, MPP for Thunder Bay-Superior North. “Investments like this, will create jobs and keep people right here in Thunder Bay working and our community strong for years to come.”

The BiLevel coach is the most popular double-deck commuter rail car in North America with over 1,300 currently in operation, or on order with, transit authorities in 14 metropolitan regions across Canada and the United States. These newest generation cars feature upgrades to door and air conditioning systems, increases in energy efficiency, and enhancements to amenities that make the passenger experience even better. This order for additional BiLevel cars will support GO Transit’s overall service expansion plan to meet ridership growth.

Every day, close to 1.5 million Ontarians rely on Bombardier rail vehicles to make their daily commute on the Toronto subway, streetcar systems or GO Transit commuter trains. To help rail transit agencies maximize the utilization of their assets, Bombardier provides a full range of products and services for the entire lifecycle of train operations and ensures substantial investments in advanced engineering, research and development and technology testing. In GTHA, Bombardier maintains and operates GO Transit’s commuter train fleet, the largest commuter rail system in Canada.

"We are proud of our long-standing partnership with Ontario”, said Benoît Brossoit, President, Bombardier Transportation, Americas Region. “By providing industry-leading performance with our rail vehicles and services, Bombardier has been an ally in the development of public transit in the Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area for over 20 years. Today, with our manufacturing sites and thousands of local employees, our commitment to Ontario remains as strong as ever.”

Bombardier Transportation is the only global rail manufacturer with an important presence in Canada. In Ontario, Bombardier relies on a workforce of close to 6,000 highly qualified employees and three manufacturing sites, Thunder Bay, Kingston and Downsview.
 
I'm surprised that they're ordering more BiLevels, given plans for GO RER and (presumably) conversion to EMU operation. I guess that's far enough in the future that they'll need these for a few years yet?
 
I'm surprised that they're ordering more BiLevels, given plans for GO RER and (presumably) conversion to EMU operation. I guess that's far enough in the future that they'll need these for a few years yet?

I'm not, although the size is a bit larger than I would have expected. They're close running short of cars as it is today, and even though they've got almost another 90 cars to arrive before they start on this order, the plans over the next couple of years is to add a lot of peak-hour trains - and they're going to need a lot more cars to run them.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
I'm surprised that they're ordering more BiLevels, given plans for GO RER and (presumably) conversion to EMU operation. I guess that's far enough in the future that they'll need these for a few years yet?

They need to support those 5 years worth of pre-RER growth AND many GO Bilevel cars will remain in use long into the future.

GO still runs cars manufactured in '78/'79 (refurbished twice now). Perhaps in 2025 they can actually send everything manufactured before the 90's (~150 cars will be over 35 years old at that point) to scrap.


Also, RER is still far from a sure-thing.
 
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Metroinx shake-up ahead?

Robert Prichard, chairman of Metrolinx’s board of directors, appeared to react with frustration to Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca’s decision to launch a sweeping probe of the agency after a string of high-profile screw-ups and damaging media coverage in early 2016. The Toronto Sun obtained an email that Prichard sent to other Metrolinx board members in early March about the impending review.

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/01/metrolinx-chairman-called-government-review-unwelcome

It seems Metrolinx isn't secretive to the public but also to MTO which is their governing body.
 
Perhaps in 2025 they can actually send everything manufactured before the 90's (~150 cars will be over 35 years old at that point) to scrap.
Or to MBTA, who will probably be still mired in their perpetual equipment crisis as a result of their terrible Rotem bilevel order :rolleyes:
 

That was only about superficial s*** around UPX and sponsorship (and frankly, the former is the provinces' baby, they should own it) - nothing about the post-schedule change operational fiasco, which arguably more disastrous. Perhaps they need to refocus on that instead of doing the song and dance on PR.

But then again, why would I trust a minister's directive to investigate - when said government had just as much to do with the mess? Bring on the Auditor General nstead?

AoD
 
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nothing about the post-schedule change operational fiasco, which arguably more disastrous. Perhaps they need to refocus on that instead of doing the song and dance on PR.

The probe was ordered on March 9th. IIRC the schedule change you mention occurred after that time.

You're right though, it appears to deal mostly with cash-flow and less with actual operations.

Bring on the Auditor General instead?

Agreed. I'm sure that'll happen but the AG always seems to be a couple years after the fact.
 
Well here's ten that go a hell of a lot faster, as well as 11-12 coaches, and some have been running for well over a decade:

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/feature-the-10-fastest-high-speed-trains-in-europe/
.

A private company has the fastest train in Europe...interesting. (although I only got up to 300 km/hr on it...depends on the route)

Should we look at Italy for innovation and a surge in inter-city train travel? Italo is private and (I think) went to court to require the state-owned company to let them run on their lines. It's mainly for intercity (Naples to Florence via Rome is about the same distance as Toronto to Montreal via Ottawa). But equally it can be applied to local travel (i.e. GO) where there is excess capacity on the lines.

Of course Italy subsidizes rail travel equal to E8b per year (a 250km trip is normally < E50). Crazy. And people wonder why they are broke
 
Might be a dumb question but will the bilevel diesels still run as express commuter trains on the RER lines?
 
Might be a dumb question but will the bilevel diesels still run as express commuter trains on the RER lines?

On most lines, yes. Barrie Line and Lake Shore East will probably be all electric GO service but all the others will have some form of diesel service; assuming of course that GO RER service is constructed.
 
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