GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[mdrejhon]

I dove into the thousands of pages of documents, to dig for Aldershot electrification plans.

It's going to be messy decision making for how Aldershot GO is phased during GO electrification -- either dual mode trains occurs, Aldershot gets downgraded to hourly diesel train service, or electrification reaches Hamilton when Aldershot is electrified.

TPAP stops abruptly at Burlington GO station.

 

[kEiThZ]

well...im not excited for PC....but since theyre poised to win due to hate over wynne id figure theyd do what every changing govt does which is
make counter policies or retract existing ones just because..... so im banking theyll scrap the hydrogen project because its not "fiscally responsible".

I'm surprised that someone who thinks privatizing Metrolinx isn't a fan of the PCPO.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

If ML were smart they would be talking more practically and less with the branding. "Additional trackage to increase GO service" is something the Tories could get their heads around (at the very least, they'd be hard pressed to say that isn't needed). "Convert diesel locomotives to electric" would also be sellable - people know there are lots of GO locomotives, and they would probably accept that once you have lots of locomotives out there, electrics are cheaper, and greener. Nobody other than transit wonks on UT know what an EMU is. Don't go there. Let the Tories (eventually) point out that locomotive hauled trains only make sense at peak when the trains are long. Let them take the credit for what is already self evident. Frankly, 3-car trains consisting of existing bilevels with an electric loco would not be that bad an idea as the starting point for electrification. Nobody really reads the business case that carefully.

And frankly, RER is gold plated. The focus on palatial stations is incredibly wasteful. We could make do with some bus shelters and incremental station improvement.

- Paul

And much quieter! How quiet, in terms Joe Average can understand? "As quiet as a subway train running in the open air, but capable of running much faster".

When I tell "normies" that GO is being electrified, they have no concept of what electrification is.

I understand the history and why GO RER is called "RER", but I think that calling it "GO Surface Subway", even though this name is inaccurate, would resonate with way more people. The increased frequency is clearly implied, and I think that it would be much more marketable.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

When I tell "normies" that GO is being electrified, they have no concept of what electrification is.

I understand the history and why GO RER is called "RER", but I think that calling it "GO Surface Subway", even though this name is inaccurate, would resonate with way more people. The increased frequency is clearly implied, and I think that it would be much more marketable.

The problem with calling it a surface subway people will think that they will be running Toronto Rocket trains on the Go train tracks using a third rail. Any type of new transit is hard to sell to those that donèt know. For example, Toronto is now getting used to larger streetcars then we have had before. Many people didn't get why platforms in places like St. Clair and Spadina were built so big until the new cars started using them, people still don't understand that some of them had to be changed after they arrived becuse the design of the streetcras wasn't finalised at the time of the building of them(ie St. Clair, Sapdia and Ronsecvale).

 

[Kitsune]

.... doesnt this forum support tapatalk?

 

[jje1000]

The problem with calling it Ègo surface subwayÈ poele will think that they will be running Toronto Rocket trains on the Go train tracks using third rail. Any type of new trasnit is hard to sell to those that donèt know. For example Toronto is now getting used tolarger streetcars then we have had before. Mny poel didnèt get why platforms in places like St. Ckair and Spadian wre bult so big unti the new cars satred using tem, poele still donèt understand that some of tem had to be changed after they arived becuse the design of the streetcras wanèt finalised at the time of the building of them(ie St. Clair, Sapdia and Ronsecvale).

I don't think people care that much as long as the timing and trainsets look reasonably metro-like- people associate more with brands than they do with hard facts, and most of them probably don't even know the hard facts anyways.

That's why people still see LRT as 'streetcars', why the DRL had to be rebranded as the Relief Line, and why brand-association is one of the most important factors in advertising.

Maybe something like "GO Metro" (sacreligious to transit term purists) might be a good idea, considering that "Metro" itself is such a vague term in its roots.

 

[crs1026]

Not sure why it wouldn't just continue to be 'GO Transit' - just let it be recognized for getting better every year.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Well, thanks to a flight out west I actually had time to chew through volumes 1 and 2 of the TPAP report. Some observations:
- looks like they have a workable solution to putting wires under the trainshed at Union Station
- they are preserving the capability to route double-stack freight and Automax carriers on the Lakeshore - including through Union Station, and on the lines that connect to the York/Halton Subs. I don’t expect there will be much of that, but it’s a significant concession to CN which ought to get CN’s reciprocal cooperation on, say, the bypass
- there is mention of a ‘Cooperation agreement’ with CP
- The layout for the Mimico power supply infrastructure is interesting: a tap from the H1 HV network at Obico (Manby), and a substation down at Towns Road. That implies acquiring the property that would allow a south to east connecting track at Canpa. I wonder if the Obico bit will affect potential routing of a Line 2 subway extension or yard wye
- Visually unappealing barriers on bridges will keep us from admiring the tracks and trains

All in all, plenty of detail to digest.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Well, thanks to a flight out west I actually had time to chew through volumes 1 and 2 of the TPAP report. Some observations:
- looks like they have a workable solution to putting wires under the trainshed at Union Station
- they are preserving the capability to route double-stack freight and Automax carriers on the Lakeshore - including through Union Station, and on the lines that connect to the York/Halton Subs. I don’t expect there will be much of that, but it’s a significant concession to CN which ought to get CN’s reciprocal cooperation on, say, the bypass
- there is mention of a ‘Cooperation agreement’ with CP
- The layout for the Mimico power supply infrastructure is interesting: a tap from the H1 HV network at Obico (Manby), and a substation down at Towns Road. That implies acquiring the property that would allow a south to east connecting track at Canpa. I wonder if the Obico bit will affect potential routing of a Line 2 subway extension or yard wye
- Visually unappealing barriers on bridges will keep us from admiring the tracks and trains

All in all, plenty of detail to digest.

- Paul

That's a great recap Paul. Thanks for the review. I now know of some key items where I want to look at in more detail. I find the Union Station solution update fascinating. From my perspective Metrolinx appear to take a lot of flak from various folks (including some here) on approving construction at Union that couldn't handle electrification. I believe they said at the time they would find and a solution and it has now happened. So maybe it was always just a comms issue?

A slightly off topic comparison could be when Metrolinx said (I can find the article/link if anyone wants) they missed the AG's reference to the Pickering pedestrian bridge issues and would have corrected the AG's language before it went out. The AG sends their reports to the agencies first for comment and feedback and it looks like the technical description of what happened on the bridge was misstated in the AG report which was then picked up by the media and opposition. By then it's too late and the impression has sunk in.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Well, thanks to a flight out west I actually had time to chew through volumes 1 and 2 of the TPAP report. Some observations:
- looks like they have a workable solution to putting wires under the trainshed at Union Station
- they are preserving the capability to route double-stack freight and Automax carriers on the Lakeshore - including through Union Station, and on the lines that connect to the York/Halton Subs. I don’t expect there will be much of that, but it’s a significant concession to CN which ought to get CN’s reciprocal cooperation on, say, the bypass
- there is mention of a ‘Cooperation agreement’ with CP
- The layout for the Mimico power supply infrastructure is interesting: a tap from the H1 HV network at Obico (Manby), and a substation down at Towns Road. That implies acquiring the property that would allow a south to east connecting track at Canpa. I wonder if the Obico bit will affect potential routing of a Line 2 subway extension or yard wye
- Visually unappealing barriers on bridges will keep us from admiring the tracks and trains

All in all, plenty of detail to digest.

- Paul

TTC is planning a new subway yard at the former CP Obico intermodal yard. plays into that whole equation on the northern portion of the Canpa sub. I believe the plan is to shift servicing of the bloor danforth line primarily to that and change the Greenwood Yard over to primarily service the DRL.

 

[steveintoronto]

.... doesnt this forum support tapatalk?

See: https://androidforums.com/threads/tapatalk-is-being-discontinued.1125895/

Tried to download
GO Rail Network Electrification – Environmental Project Report (EPR)
Volume 1
Volume 2
Volume 3
Volume 4
Volume 5

Since Paul now has me intrigued. GO's server is jammed!

As per public general lack of awareness of "electrification"...once the catenary starts going up, (lol....rephrase...*when* the catenary starts going up) and more stories emerge in the press, they'll get it. "GO Electric" will probably be used as a catch phrase, as long as GE doesn't sue.

 

[crs1026]

TTC is planning a new subway yard at the former CP Obico intermodal yard. plays into that whole equation on the northern portion of the Canpa sub. I believe the plan is to shift servicing of the bloor danforth line primarily to that and change the Greenwood Yard over to primarily service the DRL.

I probably didn't explain myself well. The new switchgear for the tap from H1 is planned to be sited within the old wye at Obico, which is roughly where the subway tracks to the proposed new subway yard might be. I am wondering if TTC and ML have talked and confirmed that the location of these two separate builds is compatible and both can be accomodated.

I meant to add, I wonder if a west to south wye leg will be preserved at Obico, or if that is even in ML's intentions. Personally, I would say the Canpa line would have the greatest utility as a detour route if there were wyes at both Canpa and Obico.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Personally, I would say the Canpa line would have the greatest utility as a detour route if there were wyes at both Canpa and Obico.

- Paul

Which jogs my memory! Whatever did happen to those supposed 'diversions' coming up the sub, along the CP and down the Weston Corridor to Union? Or is that still in the future?

 

[crs1026]

Which jogs my memory! Whatever did happen to those supposed 'diversions' coming up the sub, along the CP and down the Weston Corridor to Union? Or is that still in the future?

The TPAP describes in detail the need to completely rebuild the bridges at Dufferin, Dowling and iirc Jameson, and to do so before adding electrification. If electrification goes ahead, this will happen.
It sounds like the bridges may need work at some point anyways, but maybe not as urgently.

- Paul

 

[innsertnamehere]

Dowling, Dunn, and Dufferin are already on temporary bridge structures. Pretty sure Jameson isn't far behind. They badly need replacement. It's frankly embarrassing that the situation has been allowed to get to this point at all. It points at nothing but incompetency in city management if you ask me. Dufferin has been on a temporary structure for years and there still aren't concrete plans for it's permanent replacement.