GO Transit Electrification | Metrolinx

[TOareaFan]

Did I state a number for Brampton?

Do you have official backup figures showing how much money is on the table to build the missing extension and if so, show it. Otherwise its a guessing number to say it haft of X or Y which I think is low in the first place.

Back to electrifying ML lines for RER.

relax...the $400MM was in someone else's post which I also quoted.

What was the total budget for the project? $1.6B......with, roughly, 25% of the length of it in Brampton....and I think that is where people get the false $400MM from....but it misses a couple of points.....not all of the Brampton part was cancelled....about half of it was so you are down to ~$200MM using that simplistic approach....but out of the $1.6B there were other things unaffected by the cancellation of the northern part......the storage and maintenance facility still has to be built the cars still have to be bought.....it would be a real surprise if the cancellation of that stretch from Steeles to Nelson freed up more than $200MM.

 

[Allandale25]

relax...the $400MM was in someone else's post which I also quoted.

What was the total budget for the project? $1.6B......with, roughly, 25% of the length of it in Brampton....and I think that is where people get the false $400MM from....but it misses a couple of points.....not all of the Brampton part was cancelled....about half of it was so you are down to ~$200MM using that simplistic approach....but out of the $1.6B there were other things unaffected by the cancellation of the northern part......the storage and maintenance facility still has to be built the cars still have to be bought.....it would be a real surprise if the cancellation of that stretch from Steeles to Nelson freed up more than $200MM.

Just in case folks watching (but not commenting) on this thread hadn't seen this graphic (I'm sure TOareaFan and Drum have as they've been following this project for years), here's the "Benefit Cost Analysis" that was presented during October 2015 and as part of the "Facilitated Council Workshop 2" (see PDF here, page 38) led by Malone Given Parsons Ltd. It provides some insight into the south of Steeles/north of Steeles situation.

[and yes, this should probably be in the Hurontario LRT thread]

 

[Allandale25]

Here's the email that just went out with the Barrie Corridor TPAP dates and public meetings.

GO Rail Network Electrification - TPAP Notice of Commencement and Public Meetings

Metrolinx and the province of Ontario are continuing to move forward with our goal to transform the way the region moves by bringing rapid transit to communities throughout the GTHA. By 2025, electrified trains will be running every 15 minutes or better, all day and in both directions, within the most heavily travelled sections of the GO network. Every community transit project, big or small, plays a vital role in the regional transportation system. We want to share our plans and get your feedback.

To deliver this service, for the past year we have been busy completing the necessary environmental studies, consulting with the community and finalizing the early enabling works to assess the impacts of building the infrastructure required to electrify the network.We now plan to commence the formal Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP) on June 14, 2017.

Listed below are key TPAP dates that outline the steps taken to complete the environmental assessment.

Notice of Commencement: June 14, 2017
Notice of Completion: October 11, 2017
Start of 30-Day Public Review: October 12 – November 10, 2017
Start of 35-Day Minister Review: November 11 – December 15, 2017
Statement of Completion: December 15, 2017
As part of our continued community engagement, we wanted to let you know that there will be public meetings held to share the impacts of the project and our proposed mitigation. We invite you to join us in person at the public meeting nearest you to find out more.

Meeting times: 6:30 p.m. – 8:30 p.m. / Presentation: 7:00 p.m.

Monday, June 26, 2017
Clarke Memorial Hall
161 Lakeshore Road West
Mississauga, ON L5H 1G3

Wednesday, June 28, 2017
Ajax Community Centre
75 Centennial Road
Ajax, ON L1S 4S4

Thursday, June 29, 2017
Metro Hall
55 John Street
Toronto, ON M5V 3C6

Wednesday, July 5, 2017
Newmarket Community Centre
200 Doug Duncan Drive,
Newmarket, ON L3Y 3Y9

 

[Palma]

I actually think RER is sellable under the Tories. Would sell really well in the 905. They know they can win seats.

On the other hand, the PCs could build DRL Long and they still wouldn't take most seats in Toronto. They know that.

well if you know history, PC's use to win in Toronto. They rules from 1942 to mid 80's. Doubt Liberals will beat that record

 

[Allandale25]

I actually think RER is sellable under the Tories. Would sell really well in the 905. They know they can win seats.

Just for context, I seem to recall the PCs were supportive of RER and electrification, they just wanted to extend the implementation time frame. I think they were going to stretch out between 5 and 10 years. I'll be interested to see what they do in the 2018 election. I realize it may not been the same, but here's what they are saying about Green Energy Act contracts. I wonder if they'll extend that thinking to any transit-related signed contracts.

 

[steveintoronto]

Just for context, I seem to recall the PCs were supportive of RER and electrification,... but here's what they are saying about Green Energy Act contracts. I wonder if they'll extend that thinking to any transit-related signed contracts.

Many thanks for link to The Agenda, always good viewing, I'm now trying to find a link on-line for the Brown interview. As much as I'm an electronic tech and design systems and components, Twitter is alien to me, and is far more intrusion than help for many more sophisticated media.

But I Googled to see what I could find on-line relevant to the Agenda's piece, which isn't much, Brown is a man of few words, perhaps it's better that way, but here's a revealing critique:

[...]
Alana Kiteley of the MTO sent in the following release. However after exchanging emails it turned out it was not on behalf of the MTO. She and some fellow MTO workers allegedly were simply upset at PC leader Patrick Brown’s statements which she’s rebutted.

This being the Wynne government it’d bewildering as to whether Ms Kiteley will be promoted or sanctioned using the MTO email server and time to send it out?

We did not use the photos included in Alana’s release. Good job on research she apparently did though.

Good Afternoon,

Patrick Brown spoke to the Ontario Road Builders Association where he made a number of false statements about the province. Facts Still Matter in Ontario, especially when it comes to the historic amount of transportation infrastructure being built right now across the province.

He said: “I believe we’ve seen lip service to infrastructure over the last 10 years but we’re not seeing shovels in the ground”


Fact: Here are some pictures of shovels in the ground



Eglinton LRT



Spadina Subway Extension



Waterloo LRT



Highway 404 Extension


(Source: http://m.thecrosstown.ca/Text-Summary-Eglinton-Crosstown-Update?device=mobile)

(Source: http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2012/07/work-progressing-stations-spadina-subway-extension)

(Source: http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-construction-through-kitchener-and-waterloo/)

(Source: http://www.bluestarconstruction.ca/operations-services/projects/404-2/)


He said: “You go to Gujarat, you think you’re on Canadian roads. They’ve really invested in Infrastructure. No wonder they’ve seen their economy grow. No wonder Gujarat was leading India in job growth.”


Fact: The next time he wants to make this point he’s welcome to use Ontario as an example. It’s no coincidence that our government is making the largest infrastructure investment in Ontario’s history and leading the G7 in economic growth.

(Source: https://www.ontario.ca/page/building-ontario, http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/ecaccts/)



He said: “We want to make sure that historic infrastructure 130 billion is actually spent on infrastructure not spent simply on, on promises, on press releases”


Fact: Cost of the new GO station in Richmond Hill: $22 million, cost of the press release announcing it was open: $0, cost of catching Patrick Brown making up facts: priceless

(Source: https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2016...-commute-easier-for-york-region-families.html)



He said: “We have become the capital of red tape in North America”


Fact: The CFIB nominated has nominated the Ontario government for its golden scissors award for cutting red tape 3 years in a row. This year the government received two nominations.

(Source: http://www.cfib-fcei.ca/english/article/4786-cfib-announces-golden-scissors-award-finalists.html)


He said: “Projects need to start within mandate… It’s an insincere commitment promising something for 2019 or 2031”


Fact: Meaningful projects take longer than 4 years to build. If Patrick Brown won’t build anything that takes longer than 4 years that means he wouldn’t build any new subways or LRT’s.

(Source: http://vivanext.com/blog/2009/12/01/the-spadina-subway-extension-moves-forward/)


He said: “The biggest announcement was for Hydro One, government said we’d get money for infrastructure. Of the first $4 billion sold, 0 went into infrastructure, money has been diverted to general revenue”



Fact: All of this money went into the Trillium Trust to be spent on projects like like GO Regional Express Rail, Mississauga and Hamilton LRT’s and the recently announced natural gas expansion.

(Source: https://news.ontario.ca/mof/en/2015/04/the-trillium-trust-and-moving-ontario-forward.html,https://news.ontario.ca/moi/en/2017/01/expanding-natural-gas-to-more-communities-across-ontario.html)

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2017/02...-leader-patrick-browns-statements-feb-6-2017/

 

[cplchanb]

Just for context, I seem to recall the PCs were supportive of RER and electrification, they just wanted to extend the implementation time frame. I think they were going to stretch out between 5 and 10 years. I'll be interested to see what they do in the 2018 election. I realize it may not been the same, but here's what they are saying about Green Energy Act contracts. I wonder if they'll extend that thinking to any transit-related signed contracts.

IMO the minute they extend will mean a crippling blow for the project. Weve all seen what happens to large govt infrastructure projects that get extended to "save costs".....construction costs go up due to inflation, longer delays that
have spinoff consequences...another election....the next majority govt should pass a law that would make it illegal to cancel or significantly alter a large infrastructure project once shovels hit the ground..

 

[Allandale25]

Many thanks for link to The Agenda, always good viewing, I'm now trying to find a link on-line for the Brown interview. As much as I'm an electronic tech and design systems and components, Twitter is alien to me, and is far more intrusion than help for many more sophisticated media.

But I Googled to see what I could find on-line relevant to the Agenda's piece, which isn't much, Brown is a man of few words, perhaps it's better that way, but here's a revealing critique:

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2017/02...-leader-patrick-browns-statements-feb-6-2017/

Alana Kiteley is listed as the "Legislative Assistant" to the Minister, so it's common for staff in the Minister's office to release statements like this. The article makes it sound as though she was a MTO OPS member. There's a distinction. Also the inclusion of the second question in the article after the blue text really shows how credible this publication really is overall. That's my take on the publication, not whether Patrick Brown is right or the current governing party is right on the issue of announcing GO service increases and the timing matter.

 

[crs1026]

IMO the minute they extend will mean a crippling blow for the project. Weve all seen what happens to large govt infrastructure projects that get extended to "save costs".....construction costs go up due to inflation, longer delays that
have spinoff consequences...another election....the next majority govt should pass a law that would make it illegal to cancel or significantly alter a large infrastructure project once shovels hit the ground..

I have been wondering if the P3 approach may prove to be a blessing in this respect. I wonder if it will be more difficult to unbundle or change the parameters ofthe work package given that the vendor is the one controlling scheduling etc.

Certainly, anything is renegotiable given sufficient penalty payments, but this may in itself create disincentives to doing so in the interest of simply cutting expenditure.

Certainly, it would be difficult for a new government to go this route given the position taken in the Gas Plant scandals. And while ML has kind of played this game with the Flexity order, it would be dangerous to do this a second time.

My only thought about 'what could go wrong' with the Barrie procurement is that the vendors may hike their contingencies, leading to a sticker shock scenario similar to what happened when Ontario sought bids on new nuclear reactors. Even so, if Wynne can finalise the deal before she is booted, it seems unlikely that a new government would cancel the deal and disappoint the voters. It's still so easy for them to blame the dollars on the past regime.

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

Here's the formal Notice of Commencement for the "GO Rail Network Electrification Transit Project Assessment Process".

 

[rbt]

IMO the minute they extend will mean a crippling blow for the project. Weve all seen what happens to large govt infrastructure projects that get extended to "save costs".....construction costs go up due to inflation, longer delays that
have spinoff consequences...another election....the next majority govt should pass a law that would make it illegal to cancel or significantly alter a large infrastructure project once shovels hit the ground..

Electrification (even 30 minute/hourly service) as a standalone project pays for itself in 10 years, possibly less. If Conservatives demand savings, this is what Metrolinx will probably point at for corridors that are up to snuff (including Union Station).

Service levels will be determined by ridership. That was always going to be true (with a few anomalies here and there for governments that temporarily want to subsidize service).

The really hard/expensive part is the track expansion and grade separations to allow for increased service. Barrie Line looks like it'll sneak through aside from the Davenport grade separation*. Union Station train shed is a huge piece that I'm really hopeful will be tendered soon (before the end of the month?).

But yeah, if they can't get Union Station to financial close before the election, then it'll be infrequent diesels for some time to come. Cons at best will spend 2% of the budget on transit capital. Liberals are closer to 6% this year to Metrolinx.

* Is Davenport part of that RFQ package? I don't know why it wouldn't be but I also haven't seen any statement to indicate that it is.

 

[Allandale25]

* Is Davenport part of that RFQ package? I don't know why it wouldn't be but I also haven't seen any statement to indicate that it is.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for to answer the question, but here's what I posted in the "GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation" thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...nd-grade-separation.9001/page-50#post-1222774

 

[rbt]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for to answer the question, but here's what I posted in the "GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation" thread: http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...nd-grade-separation.9001/page-50#post-1222774

Ahh, so definitely not then. Thanks.

 

[TOareaFan]

 

[Edward Skira]

I find it funny that these transportation announcements always contain parking info but no transit info. Surely someone takes the TTC or GO to these events. Either way bad optics.


Minister of Transportation to Make Transit Announcement
June 14, 2017

Steven Del Duca, Minister of Transportation, and Peter Milczyn, MPP for Etobicoke-Lakeshore, will make a transit announcement. They will be joined by John Jensen, President and CEO of Metrolinx.

Date: Thursday, June 15, 2017

Time: 11 a.m.

Location: Preventative Maintenance Bay 3

GO Transit Willowbrook Facility

Etona Court, one block east of Islington Avenue

Etobicoke

Parking is located on the west side of Etona Court.

Make your way to gate 3 at the south end of

Etona Court for escorted access to the event site.


Note: It is recommended that all media attending the event wear safety boots or heavy footwear. Please note that the site is not fully accessible.