Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[crs1026]

As usual, one can look for a conspiracy or a screw up.

The conspiracy theory would be that the PR strategy allowed for some initial selling. Metrolinx opens up the public discussion, knowing there will be backlash, and builds some period of "discussion" into the project timing. The project is only beginning, so delay does not impact cost or execution. The politicians look responsive. After the public has vented, the EA proceeds, and not much different ensues.

The screw up theory would be that Metrolinx just assumed that they would just walk in and announce their intentions, the public reaction would be futile and/or easily sidestepped with meaningless PR stuff, and they would just do what they felt like doing. And they were genuinely taken aback when the politicians realised they had stepped on something and called 'time out'.

I won't say which theory I favour, except to note that one requires a lot more foresight, coordinated effort, and organizational effectiveness than the other. Sometimes we give government more credit than it deserves.

- Paul

 

[wopchop]

^aside from explaining how a 20% increase in any budget is "small" how would it cover the 20%? Would admission be charged?

We can hire a troll to collect tolls.

 

[mdrejhon]

^aside from explaining how a 20% increase in any budget is "small" how would it cover the 20%? Would admission be charged?

No admission. But the increased draw of people over a 20 year time period, would pay off. A combination of several of: Possibly more food trucks licenses, ice cream shops, cafes, restaurants, shops (at the bridge endpoints), more people enjoying the area with health benefits, avoiding decreased tax assessments caused by ugly bridge/underpass blight, adding possible increased tax assessments in other sections like at pedestrian entry areas, and other benefits that an enhanced bridge may possibly offer. This effect is observed at other tourist bridges elsewhere and can payoff the cost difference of some kinds of bridge enhancements.

I'm just saying -- instead of quadrupling the budget to do a tunnel (the high-budget manoever similiar to Scarborough Subway) -- instead of 300%+, just add 20% instead to reduce resident opposition while keeping the cheaper bridge option. Perhaps it's only 5%, 10%, or something like that -- but an allotment to make it more attractive and naturally pull people, rather than repel people. For a $150M budget, even 10% extra is 15 million dollars, at $750,000 extra per year for 20 years, which is realistically coverable via the delta (difference) of increased annual benefits of enhancing the bridge appearance & also adding an overhanging scenic pedestrian/bike path to the side of the bridge. It doesn't have to be a big-time tourist attraction, but draw enough uplift/people/etc to cover the delta between the un-enhanced and enhanced version of the Davenport bridge option.

If the alternative is bridge opposition essentially ending up cancelling Barrie RER (if nobody wants to pay for the stupendously expensive tunnel option) then "enhancing" the bridge option is mighty attractive.

They do need to come up with a number (possibly better than mine), where it all makes sense -- but I think this is an avenue worth investigating.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Metrolinx report on ‘Davenport Diamond’ rail crossing expected by end of September

Metrolinx needs until the end of the month to finish sifting through public feedback, as well as address questions about the proposal raised by Toronto city staff, CEO Bruce McCuaig said.

“As you can imagine we’ve received input from the municipality and all the different groups in the community,” said McCuaig following Metrolinx’s quarterly board meeting earlier this week. “We’ve been updating a lot of the technical work so we can be responsive (to the concerns) as much as possible.”

The report is expected to also include materials from a recently concluded round of public consultations organized by Metrolinx over the summer which allowed selected Davenport residents to provide feedback for future beautifying and creation of public spaces on lands freed up from the building of an overpass.

The plan has however met with vocal opposition from members of the Davenport community since the Metrolinx announced this past March it was progressing with study of the plan.

Metrolinx says the bridge is necessary to separate GO Transit train traffic from CP Rail which leads to delays for its Barrie line customers.

What has some incensed is Metrolinx’s refusal to consider alternative designs like an underpass for getting rid of the Diamond rail crossing, which is located northwest of Landsdowne Avenue and Dupont Street. Metrolinx projects the cost of building an overpass to be $120-$500 million less than burying the GO tracks and requiring two less years of construction.

 

[raptor]

Metrolinx feasibility report posted here

The feasibility analysis includes initial engineering and design work on the various options and includes an analysis of a number of criteria including the short and long-term impacts of construction on roads, utilities, and road traffic, public health and environmental impacts, how difficult it is to build and overall affordability of the option.

This work was completed for the Davenport Diamond project and the feasibility report shows that while there is no solution without impacts and the overpass has a visual impact on the community, when considered in the context of the benefits provided by the overpass and some of the significant negative impacts of the trench and tunnel, the overpass is the preferred choice for both better rail service and the community.

 

[robmausser]

Looks like if they did the tunnel option, the planned St.Clair station would be off the table.

 

[drum118]

Looks like if they did the tunnel option, the planned St.Clair station would be off the table.

They did look at a tunnel in the beginning and it was rule out. This reinforce the elevation is the way to go.

I do find it odd that the true tunnel is shorter in build time than the trench.

Its time to tell the NIMBY folks where to go, as no matter what happens they will be piss off. Unless they are over 150 years old, they knew trains where using this corridor when they were either born there or move in. Buyer beware.

I think with some refinement to the elevated plan and Metrolinx being forth coming on real facts, the elevated line will fly. But build it right with the right number of tracks infrastructure now and not come back at a later date to add tracks support structure at a later date. Always can add tracks at a later date.

I would also build the Bloor and St Clair station now, not later, as it will cut now on the noise and construction if done later.

 

[salsa]

I found a few conceptual renderings of the proposed bridge in the feasibility report.

GO Tracks Crossing CP Tracks Looking Southwest

Dupont Street Looking West

Dupont Street Looking East

Wallace Ave Looking East

Wallace Avenue Looking West

Ward Avenue Looking West

Paton Road Looking East

 

[salsa]

It looks alright to me, however modern concrete bridges in general lack charm and character compared to the old steel rail bridges that used to be built.

 

[crs1026]

The artist conveniently left the poles and wires for electrification off the drawing - they may be the least attractive element.

It does demonstrate that a bridge can look fairly light and airy, if designed with that in mind. Personally, though, I find those honeycomb concrete slab structures hideous.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The artist conveniently left the poles and wires for electrification off the drawing - they may be the least attractive element.

It does demonstrate that a bridge can look fairly light and airy, if designed with that in mind. Personally, though, I find those honeycomb concrete slab structures hideous.

- Paul

It's a report by engineers - aesthetics is something that can be improved upon if they should choose to allocate funds for it (but of course, it's something rarely called for by the community once the whatever option is chosen). The height of the bridge look decent at Wallace/Dupont.

From the looks of it, the honeycomb concrete slab is a retaining wall for the (earthen?) ramp, it's really not a bridge supported by columns at that point.

AoD

 

[Adjei]

They community should demand a design competition for the bridge and also a station at Bloor to connect to Landsdowne station.

 

[vic]

The artist conveniently left the poles and wires for electrification off the drawing - they may be the least attractive element.

It does demonstrate that a bridge can look fairly light and airy, if designed with that in mind. Personally, though, I find those honeycomb concrete slab structures hideous.

- Paul

No noise walls either...

 

[vic]

They community should demand a design competition for the bridge and also a station at Bloor to connect to Landsdowne station.

Various people/groups already pushing for that.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

No noise walls either...

They can use polycarbonate panels for that. Better yet, coloured polycarbonate panels (in different shades of green, or go full on colour mode as a public art piece)

AoD