GO Transit: Construction Projects (Metrolinx, various)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Unless our Ontario government has been telling fibs....money was never the issue....they have a ReR plan and have repeatedly described it as fully funded.....so all that happened today is someone in Ottawa decided to free up $1.9B of money for Ontario.

It's clearly a lot more money than you would need to add the fourth track to the GTS from Union to Bramalea, considering that many parts are roughed in. But the third track through Brampton will be quite expensive, and grade crossings add to the cost. Mount Dennis is a committed new station. Maybe some of that is in scope.

Certainly, the comment by MP Saini about two grade separations and a train layover facility fits a Malton to Mount Pleasant area. There is a layover area planned for Mt Pleasant.

But if GO is serious about triple track through Brampton, one would expect that a Brampton MP would have been included in the announcement. The absence of any local municipal pols is interesting, also. I'm not sure Brampton Council is particularly on side to the impacts in central Brampton.

Encouraging to see money on the table to get on with things, but we may need to wait to find out the exact details.

As others have commented, it means naught if GO bobbles the other prerequisites to increasing service..... like increasing its labour force. The announcements today repeated that GO intends to ramp up the number of trains per week to a huge degree. There is no indication that they have the people to do that in the pipeline.

- Paul

Metrolinx comes off as disorganized, they were supposed to have hired the people at least 5 years ago, when the plan was to get everyone on board by mid decade. Now the goal is 2020, and they are still not ready.

 

[Allandale25]

I am hoping ML may follow up with a more specific release or backgrounder.

http://rsaini.liberal.ca/news-nouvelles/regional-express-rail-to-receive-infrastructure-funding/

After the Torbram underpass is complete there is Scarboro St, west of Malton Station, and Mill St west of Brampton station.

- Paul

Thanks. That does provide some clarity. A Mill Street/CN Halton Sub grade separation would be...complex.

 

[crs1026]

Thanks. That does provide some clarity. A Mill Street/CN Halton Sub grade separation would be...complex.

If I were Brampton Roads' King for a day, I would close this crossing and link McMurchy with Pleasantview further west. Could be an over or underpass.

But I don't really know enough about traffic patterns in the area. Just seems that Mill is a small road where the other two are obvious through routes that can't get over the tracks.

PS: Note that the MP's comment refers to parking "structures", not "lots".

- Paul

 

[Allandale25]

If I were Brampton Roads' King for a day, I would close this crossing and link McMurchy with Pleasantview further west. Could be an over or underpass.

But I don't really know enough about traffic patterns in the area. Just seems that Mill is a small road where the other two are obvious through routes that can't get over the tracks.

PS: Note that the MP's comment refers to parking "structures", not "lots".

- Paul

Interesting idea. I've mapped it below.

 

[drum118]

I am hoping ML may follow up with a more specific release or backgrounder.

http://rsaini.liberal.ca/news-nouvelles/regional-express-rail-to-receive-infrastructure-funding/

After the Torbram underpass is complete there is Scarboro St, west of Malton Station, and Mill St west of Brampton station.

- Paul

Scarboro Separation not on the table at this time by anyone and doesn't seem to be a problem as well.

Based on council talks in the past, just close the crossing and put in a walkway.

Mills St will be a bitch.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Thanks. That does provide some clarity. A Mill Street/CN Halton Sub grade separation would be...complex.

Any way to grade separate those buses out of the asphalt (top left)?

 

[cbrown2009]

Interesting idea. I've mapped it below.

I used to live in that area once upon a time (30 years or so ago... Wow!). I've always wondered why McMurchy wasn't extended north over the tracks to meet Pleasantvie. As a young BMX rider/walker who used to cross those tracks almost every day that would have made way more sense than going around to Mill St. Seems to make even more sense now given the planned increases in service (if they ever implement them).

 

[TOareaFan]

^If you look at the housing stock on the streets it becomes pretty clear they were built up at different times....so the people building homes on the south side of the tracks would have no need/desire to get their street over/under/across the tracks.....at that time everything they needed was provided to them in DT Brampton to their East.

By the time the north side (Pleasantview) was developed the cost would have been high and would likely have landed on the plate of one development that would have made the costs prohibitive...so they deadended at the tracks and anyone needing to cross would be directed to Mill Street. (given how close Mill is to there, it is questionable if another crossing would have been allowed at the time pleasantview was developed).

As for why Mill Street crosses....at the time ~150 years ago, it was likely the outer edge of the city and felt to be important....historically, streets called Mill in Ontario cities had some commercial importance in their towns.

 

[steveintoronto]

PS: Note that the MP's comment refers to parking "structures", not "lots".

That's a very good point. I'm on record as hoping for the Missing Link to be sooner rather than later, and in fact in discussion at this time (it would be utter insanity not to have it on the table, $5B is small potatoes in the bigger scheme of things, even if that price doubles). Gweed commented yesterday in the VIA string on the third track ostensibly for "High Speed"...a discussion in itself. The "third track" has been intensely debated in a number of strings, April of last year's Link string and others had pages of it, all of it informed and detailed.

Once The Link is established and functioning, I think the two tracks being tweaked for throughput and electrified will be suffice, even for higher speed HFR acting as "HSR".

So your point on "structures" rather than "lots" makes sense of Metrolinx buying the property, and stacking parking there, not building a third track, the latter being a very expensive and probably unnecessary proposition.

 

[crs1026]

Scarboro Separation not on the table at this time by anyone and doesn't seem to be a problem as well.

Based on council talks in the past, just close the crossing and put in a walkway.

Mills St will be a bitch.

Scarboro has never been anybody's priority, but I just can't see it being left alone when the line adds another track and there is something close to 15 minute 2 way service. That's just too many opportunities for cars to be on the tracks when the gates go down, even on a lightly used road. It's a long way across a multi track right of way and a panicked driver may not make it safely all the way across.

By all means, close it to save the expense of an underpass.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

So your point on "structures" rather than "lots" makes sense of Metrolinx buying the property, and stacking parking there, not building a third track, the latter being a very expensive and probably unnecessary proposition.

We have had a fairly thorough discussion here of the pros and cons of parking garages versus better local feeder transit. Brampton is a prime case study for the 'don't do it' pov, because the station is so close to the arguable city centre, and that much vehicular traffic is a major impact on its narrow central streets. Plus, Brampton's bus system is pretty well developed so why encouage people to drive ?

I know from first-hand discussion that people at the City of Brampton were not impressed when ML bought the one building to make into parking. If any of those other lots are built on, it will not go over well. Loss of BT bus ridership can be expected.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

Another backgrounder with a little more granular information on the federal announcement

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/ontario-20170331-eng.html

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

We have had a fairly thorough discussion here of the pros and cons of parking garages versus better local feeder transit. Brampton is a prime case study for the 'don't do it' pov, because the station is so close to the arguable city centre, and that much vehicular traffic is a major impact on its narrow central streets. Plus, Brampton's bus system is pretty well developed so why encouage people to drive ?

I know from first-hand discussion that people at the City of Brampton were not impressed when ML bought the one building to make into parking. If any of those other lots are built on, it will not go over well. Loss of BT bus ridership can be expected.

- Paul

My point wasn't on parking or not, it was on the 'third track' being redundant if the Missing Link is built. If parking is the sole object of the land grab, then the term "structure", as you pointed out, indicates a multi-level parking garage of some sort.

I'm on record as hoping for the Missing Link to be sooner rather than later...The "third track" has been intensely debated in a number of strings...Once The Link is established and functioning, I think the two tracks being tweaked for throughput and electrified will be suffice, even for higher speed HFR acting as "HSR".

So your point on "structures" rather than "lots" makes sense of (edit: your argument that ) Metrolinx (intention of) buying the property, (is) stacking parking there, not building a third track, the latter being a very expensive and probably unnecessary proposition.

Not much has been clarified since this:

Metrolinx buys land downtown to address GO parking shortage
Brampton Guardian By Peter Criscione
Apr 05, 2016
[...]
Brampton councillors said Monday they want a clearer picture of what Metrolinx has planned for the nine properties recently acquired around Nelson and Railroad streets.

“Are they are going to turn the downtown into a parking lot?” asked Sprovieri.

The regional councillor for Wards 9 and 10 said he wants guarantees from the transit agency that redevelopment of that block of land will include mixed-use facilities. He also called for a traffic impact study.

Regional councillor Elaine Moore, who also chairs the committee, raised concerns that the proposal would remove a number of rooming houses, displacing low-income residents.

Metrolinx spokesperson, Vanessa Barrasa, told The Guardian that addressing overcapacity at the downtown GO station parking lot is a priority for the transit agency.

With respect to a mobility hub for rail and buses, Barrasa said discussions continue with City staff regarding planning studies for the area as well as Metrolinx investments at the station.

Barrasa did not mention Metrolinx plans for mixed-use development in downtown Brampton.

Joe Pitushka, executive director of planning and infrastructure, encouraged committee members to reach out to Metrolinx for clarity.
He said such a plan could have major implications on the downtown core.

“When you start assembling this amount of land it’s going to affect the downtown,” said Pitushka.

Last year, Metrolinx locked horns with area residents and council opponents over a $1.6 billion proposal to drive a Light Rail Transit line from Mississauga’s lakefront to the downtown GO station via Main Street.

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/new...land-downtown-to-address-go-parking-shortage/

 

[Young Stats]

There's going to be a point in the future when Metrolinx cannot keep up with the maintenance costs for parking

 

[rbt]

Another backgrounder with a little more granular information on the federal announcement

http://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/ontario-20170331-eng.html

Those seem like pretty specific dollar amounts; estimate to the nearest $1000 and a 50/50 split. With luck that means Metrolinx has the engineering finished and we'll see tenders shortly after the provincial budget.