Caledon-Vaughan GO Rail Line

[crs1026]

One of the most instructive things to consider when planning new heavy rail corridors is needed additional infrastructure. If you could serve Bolton with zero new infrastructure besides a station (think additional tracks), then sure, peak only service may be acceptable. If CPKC demanded a bunch of double tracking, or even 3rd tracking in some spots, then running peak only service preforms super poorly in a business casing scenario.

So TLDR, if you can run Bolton service on existing rails without new tracks, sure peak only may work. But if you’re adding lots of new infrastructure, you need TWAD.

And reminder, Metrolinx doesn’t decide what is needed, CPKC does.

To keep it short -
- CPKC's main transcontinental line, largely single track
- Most time critical intermodal yard in CPKC's operations in Eastern Canada
- Need to construct a direct connection to the ML infrastructure to Union (needed regardless of peak or 2WAD)

I'm not leaning towards "cheap and straightforward".

- Paul

 

[Bureaucromancer]

To keep it short -
- CPKC's main transcontinental line, largely single track
- Most time critical intermodal yard in CPKC's operations in Eastern Canada
- Need to construct a direct connection to the ML infrastructure to Union (needed regardless of peak or 2WAD)

I'm not leaning towards "cheap and straightforward".

- Paul

agreed; waiting on what CPKC actuall demands, but I tend to think that the realistic options are CPKC demanding largely triple track and still shared with CPKC ownership, and a vague possibility a single track parallel Metrolinx owned corridor might be allowed…

 

[SaugeenJunction]

To keep it short -
- CPKC's main transcontinental line, largely single track
- Most time critical intermodal yard in CPKC's operations in Eastern Canada
- Need to construct a direct connection to the ML infrastructure to Union (needed regardless of peak or 2WAD)

I'm not leaning towards "cheap and straightforward".

- Paul

Bingo.

agreed; waiting on what CPKC actuall demands, but I tend to think that the realistic options are CPKC demanding largely triple track and still shared with CPKC ownership, and a vague possibility a single track parallel Metrolinx owned corridor might be allowed…

To your last point, parallel tracks seem to be the key to unlocking passenger rail on CPKC corridors. We now have two examples of this in the GTHA: Milton and Bowmanville.

 

[dowlingm]

Need to construct a direct connection to the ML infrastructure to Union (needed regardless of peak or 2WAD)

Or, don’t and instead terminate on the North Toronto Sub, and provide transfers at Weston and/or Mount Dennis. Boltoners can still reach Union but their train can also facilitate a 1 change journey from Kitchener/Brampton/Pearson to Yonge/Summerhill and 1-2 other stations between there and West Toronto Diamond.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Or, don’t and instead terminate on the North Toronto Sub, and provide transfers at Weston and/or Mount Dennis. Boltoners can still reach Union but their train can also facilitate a 1 change journey from Kitchener/Brampton/Pearson to Yonge/Summerhill and 1-2 other stations between there and West Toronto Diamond.

This may be the ideal option. Union will be at capacity post OnCorr. Not to mention we can’t handle another line from the west entering union without an appropriate line pair.

 

[crs1026]

Or, don’t and instead terminate on the North Toronto Sub, and provide transfers at Weston and/or Mount Dennis. Boltoners can still reach Union but their train can also facilitate a 1 change journey from Kitchener/Brampton/Pearson to Yonge/Summerhill and 1-2 other stations between there and West Toronto Diamond.

Adding yet more platforms is cost, and CP will be far from eager to share its tracks on the North Toronto line. A junction with the Kitchener line at Jane St would be preferable, and cheaper......north of the Nickle interlocking so that its crossovers can route Bolton trains as needed.

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Or, don’t and instead terminate on the North Toronto Sub, and provide transfers at Weston and/or Mount Dennis. Boltoners can still reach Union but their train can also facilitate a 1 change journey from Kitchener/Brampton/Pearson to Yonge/Summerhill and 1-2 other stations between there and West Toronto Diamond.

Keep in mind that historically the TTC has been adamantely opposed to this particular version of that idea. The Yonge Line is already busy enough before dumping several additional GO trains worth of people headed downtown.

Now, that said..... a station connecting with Dupont on the University side - where ridership is lower - could be much more pallatable to the TTC.

Dan

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Now, that said..... a station connecting with Dupont on the University side - where ridership is lower - could be much more pallatable to the TTC.

For North Toronto Station reopening is a nice idea, but yeah, if this is the option and it's serving as a Union reliever Dupont makes a lot more sense.

 

[jcam]

Adding yet more platforms is cost, and CP will be far from eager to share its tracks on the North Toronto line. A junction with the Kitchener line at Jane St would be preferable, and cheaper......north of the Nickle interlocking so that its crossovers can route Bolton trains as needed.

- Paul

The additional platform that's been added at Weston is about 3/4 width (same at Mount Dennis), but with the CPKR-facing side fenced off. There is lots of width to bring a track in there to service a Bolton line, and each would just need some minor platform and roof widening to accommodate.

 

[crs1026]

The additional platform that's been added at Weston is a standard double-sided width, but with the CPKR-facing side fenced off. There is lots of width to bring a track in there to service a Bolton line. I'm not sure if the Mount Dennis platforms have been structured the same way.

Certainly doable. I wonder how badly a Weston stop is really needed on this line. It might be better to skip this one and place a station somewhere up towards Emery.... although that locale is far from rider-rich. A station at Finch to connect to LRT might make sense.

In any event, one would expect that the junction would be north of Mount Dennis (Nickle may be optimal, to maximise the connectivity to the Weston Sub trackage), so the existing platforms would be sufficient at that stop. It does make sense to stop at Eglinton to allow transfer to the LRT.

- Paul

 

[jcam]

Certainly doable. I wonder how badly a Weston stop is really needed on this line. It might be better to skip this one and place a station somewhere up towards Emery.... although that locale is far from rider-rich. A station at Finch to connect to LRT might make sense.

In any event, one would expect that the junction would be north of Mount Dennis (Nickle may be optimal, to maximise the connectivity to the Weston Sub trackage), so the existing platforms would be sufficient at that stop. It does make sense to stop at Eglinton to allow transfer to the LRT.

- Paul

Agreed, Weston is only necessary if you think that's the end of the line. Its more logical to run it to Mount Dennis, and terminate there. I'd likely still update the platform though for the 'if needed' flexibility of using the track.

 

[crs1026]

Agreed, Weston is only necessary if you think that's the end of the line. Its more logical to run it to Mount Dennis, and terminate there. I'd likely still update the platform though for the 'if needed' flexibility of using the track.

Once one gets onto the Weston Sub, there is plenty of track capacity, so no need to terminate.... just a stop at Mt Dennis and then carry on to Union, with some potential attention to Bloor and Liberty. It's not clear to me whether Liberty will become an all-trains stop, or just part of the line's local (Bramalea) service.

- Paul

 

[urbancog]

It's not clear to me whether Liberty will become an all-trains stop, or just part of the line's local (Bramalea) service.

The initial design had platforms on all 4 Kitchener Line tracks but the current design has one island platform between the 2 stopping pattern tracks.

 

[dowlingm]

I wonder how badly a Weston stop is really needed on this line. It might be better to skip this one and place a station somewhere up towards Emery....

*taps the sign Google Map*