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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

ShonTron said:
The Humber Trail continues paved across Highway 427 and to the dam now. I did it last fall.
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Excellent! That's what appears on Google, but reading the Brampton Planning Report addendum, it appeared that it might be discontinuous. There's something extra added to the experience when you cross under a bridge and suddenly emerge 'somewhere else'. Technically, you've left the city, achieved 'escape velocity'. Unfortunately, the maps displayed in the report are not that legible. If someone has access to better ones, please post, it looks really promising. It's a great way to introduce beginners to 'escape on a bike'. I just pray they don't 'sanitize' the paths.

Shon Tron: Are you up on the latest developments on the G2G Trail? I got misled last Summer living in Guelph from this headline:

May 01, 2015
Guelph to Goderich super trail set to be completed this summer
[...]
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-s...-super-trail-set-to-be-completed-this-summer/
 
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ShonTron said:
The Humber Trail continues paved across Highway 427 and to the dam now. I did it last fall.
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It's actually quite nice right there! I did it as one of my last long rides in the fall. I wasn't sure where to go once I got to the dam...explored a little bit around the area, but didn't see any good cycling routes from there, so I just turned around. Beautiful ride though.
 
Napoleon said:
I wasn't sure where to go once I got to the dam...explored a little bit around the area, but didn't see any good cycling routes from there, so I just turned around. Beautiful ride though.
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Years back, there used to be a dirt path around much of the lake, whether it's still there or not I don't know, but it is a lovely area. lol...always used to run across some shady characters lurking in the bush though. I found the trailer park to be an oddity so close to Toronto. I had to do a double take looking at the 427 in the distance, and a full trailer park there.

Edit to Correct: It's a *campground* not trailer park:
https://trca.ca/parks/indian-line-campground/
 
After work yesterday, I was pleased to see so many cyclists using the bike lanes on Shuter. Then at some point around 5:45 pm or so, I could see two small groups of pedestrians (both including children) approach the north and south sides of the pedestrian crossing at Shuter and Sackville (kitty corner from the new community centre). Cars came to a stop, but I watched a row of 7 cyclists ignore the flashing lights and plow through the pedestrian crossings, even though they all had ample time to see the lights and stop safely, as the pedestrians stood waiting on their respective corners for the cyclists to be done. Not one of those cyclists thought to stop. Or even slow down.

Not that motorists don't abuse pedestrian crossings. After being pleasantly surprised in January at seeing how many car drivers seemed to be aware of, and following, the new rules for pedestrian crossings, I see fewer and fewer drivers following the new rules.

It's just depressing to see motorists and cyclists united in their disdain for pedestrians.
 
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Skeezix said:
After work yesterday, I was pleased to see so many cyclists using the bike lanes on Shuter. Then at some point around 5:45 pm or so, I could see two small groups of pedestrians (both including children) approach the north and south sides of the pedestrian crossing at Shuter and Sackville (kitty corner from the new community centre). Cars came to a stop, but I watched a row of 7 cyclists ignore the flashing lights and plow through the pedestrian crossings, even though they all had ample time to see the lights and stop safely, as the pedestrians stood waiting on their respective corners for the cyclists to be done. Not one of those cyclists thought to stop. Or even slow down.

Not that motorists don't abuse pedestrian crossings. After being pleasantly surprised in January at seeing how many car drivers seemed to be aware, and following, the new rules for pedestrian crossings, I see fewer and fewer drivers following the new rules.

It's just depressing to see motorists and cyclists united in their disdain for pedestrians.
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I see it all the time in Toronto, whether it's a Toronto thing or Ontario altogether, or even international, it truly burns my azz. I lose my temper with a lot of those cyclists. I'm a pretty fast guy, I'm not bragging, but I'm in great shape and have a very responsive machine, know how to use it and as I slow down for STOP signs and red-lights, let alone crosswalks and blind turns, some ffffing idiot metrosexual cyclist behind starts ringing their freakin' bell because everything is about them, no-one else, let alone safety. I've said some pretty blunt things to some of them. They'll never get it, but not one of them has stopped to challenge the points I've yelled at them. There's some consolation in knowing that they know they're azzholes. It doesn't help safety, or the cause of cyclists complaining about motorists.

I'd honestly love to see cops cracking down on them, it's way out of control. I have *some* sympathy for those doing rolling stops, but that's contingent on looking all ways to make sure it's safe to do so.

I'm at the point of avoiding bike lanes, many cyclists are raving idiots, not even a glance over the shoulder before changing lanes, let alone look before passing. Better the enemy you know in many cases, and that's cars, at least you can get eye-contact via their mirrors in most cases.
 
steveintoronto said:
I'd honestly love to see cops cracking down on them, it's way out of control. I have *some* sympathy for those doing rolling stops, but that's contingent on looking all ways to make sure it's safe to do so.
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I'm all in favour of the Idaho Stop at stop signs, but that's premised on cyclists treating the stop signs as yield signs (i.e. looking all ways, as you say, and only proceeding through without stopping if one has the right of way). Too many cyclists abide by the no stopping aspects of the Idaho Stop, but ignore the yield aspect and figure that pedestrians and cars about to step/drive into the intersection will stop to accommodate them. And, of course, the Idaho Stop is not meant to apply to red lights (which, anecdotally, I see most cyclists obeying) or signalized pedestrian crossings (which most cyclists don't seem to think apply to them).
 
Skeezix said:
I'm all in favour of the Idaho Stop at stop signs, but that's premised on cyclists treating the stop signs as yield signs (i.e. looking all ways, as you say, and only proceeding through without stopping if one has the right of way). Too many cyclists abide by the no stopping aspects of the Idaho Stop, but ignore the yield aspect and figure that pedestrians and cars about to step/drive into the intersection will stop to accommodate them. And, of course, the Idaho Stop is not meant to apply to red lights (which, anecdotally, I see most cyclists obeying) or signalized pedestrian crossings (which most cyclists don't seem to think apply to them).
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Counterpoint:

Cycling is on the upswing in Toronto, partly because new cyclists are being drawn in by new cycle lanes. The misbehaving cyclists Skeezix and Steve write about are not belligerent, but just new. Everyone was new once, and not everyone has a way of learning about the rules of the road.

Inconsiderate cyclist behavior bugs me as well (I cycle slowly and follow the rules pedantically), but it might be the price of moving towards a city with more cyclists in it, and I'm OK with that.
 
UserNameToronto said:
Counterpoint:

Cycling is on the upswing in Toronto, partly because new cyclists are being drawn in by new cycle lanes. The misbehaving cyclists Skeezix and Steve write about are not belligerent, but just new. Everyone was new once, and not everyone has a way of learning about the rules of the road.

Inconsiderate cyclist behavior bugs me as well (I cycle slowly and follow the rules pedantically), but it might be the price of moving towards a city with more cyclists in it, and I'm OK with that.
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Pedestrians are put in danger, but you're OK with it. Seriously? Why is it that we need to pay the "price" (as you put it) of reduced pedestrian safety to get more people in this city cycling? Is safety itself a limited resource - if cycling becomes safer, then by necessity other means of commuting by necessity need to become less safe? I believe we need to get more Torontonians on bikes, and fewer in cars, and that we need to make significant investments in our infrastructure to make cycling safer in this city, but I don't accept the proposition that in doing so we need to make it less safe for others - pedestrians and people getting on and off streetcars be warned! In fact, I think this "price of moving towards a city with more cyclists" suggestion is nonsense.

As someone whose main means of transport in this city are my own two feet, I am always more nervous about an oncoming bike than an oncoming car when I am about to step into a crosswalk - I know the car would likely do more damage to me in the event of a collision, but my experience is that the car will most likely stop, but it's a toss up with the cyclist.

And, UserName, none of this is "new". When I moved to Toronto three two decades ago, I assumed that the law exempted cyclists from the need to stop at pedestrian crossings (we didn't have crossings of that kind where I grew up in Ottawa). It was awhile before I realized that there was no exemption, but that just like motorists, some cyclists are *sses.

And this notion that somehow we should be excusing "new" cyclists is just hogwash. We don't do that for drivers ("oh, he rammed his car into a bus stop, but he's a new driver so let's cut him some slack"). If anything, "new" cyclists should be expected to have a better understanding of the rules of the road.

And, I am sorry but there is nothing that isn't belligerent about plowing through a signalized crossing with one's bike when the signals are flashing and people are about to cross. Such cyclists are very much belligerent. I can think of a bunch of other adjectives too.

ETA: Wait a minute, I'm not that old. See correction above.
 
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salsa said:
What are the new rules?
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Now one has to wait for the pedestrian to have crossed the entire street. As of January 1, drivers (including cyclists) must stop and yield the whole roadway at pedestrian crossovers and at school crossings where there is a crossing guard displaying a school crossing stop sign. Before this year, the rule was that drivers and cyclists had to stop and yield their half of the roadway - a driver could previously proceed once the pedestrian was safely off one's half of the road. Now a driver can proceed only when pedestrians are off the road entirely and safely on the sidewalk.

And, as the MTO site says: "Cyclists must follow the same rules as drivers and may face the same fine as drivers – the new law requires cyclists to stop and yield the whole roadway to pedestrians and school crossing guards before proceeding."
 
salsa said:
What are the new rules?
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For crosswalks? You have to wait until the pedestrian(s) is/are completely off the road before proceeding, not just clear of your direction of lanes.

Edit: Sorry Skeezix, I see you beat me to it. Excellent post prior, btw. I think some posters miss our gist. And it's nothing to do with "new cyclists"...I see cyclists of all ages and experience outright flaunting safety and protocol.

How are we ever going to make our case of the need for motorists to obey the rules that affect us when so many cyclists don't give a shid about others? It's not just a few, and I don't think there would be many in this forum, there's a sense of responsibility from most posters, but some cyclists are lucky I just yell at them.

And on that point, I mentioned prior on the importance with motorists of engaging their eyes in their mirrors. It makes a statement to them: "I'm here, and I have the right of way". Almost all acknowledge that! Why" *Because you're looking at them!* Basic social psychology. THAT is why when I call out ridiculous cyclists, they don't look at me, just keep going, because to look at me and engage my eyes, they'd have to acknowledge I'm right.

So as Salsa points out, *in that regard* you have a better chance establishing protocol with drivers than other cyclists, because *so few cyclists* look! If it affected just their own safety, that would be one thing, but they put others in danger, flagrant disregard for children, old people, and persons like me, who'd boot them if they came at me like that.

And then they act like "what's the problem?"

What I saw on the Lakeshore path near the ferry docks last weekend was the worst cycling I have ever seen. Cyclists riding on the wrong side into other cyclists, into the crowd, I saw children being knocked out of the way. And I saw grown cyclists that should have known better, far too many of them.
 
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