Toronto Eaton Centre (Ongoing Renewal) | ?m | ?s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

Well, they'd have to convince 52 Division to stop using that plaza as a parking lot first.

The 'plaza" is at Dundas and Simcoe and is about 5 blocks west of the Eaton Centre. The police use the plaza outside Division 52 because their garage is - very slowly - being repaired. There has been discussion on this project and of the City's plan to fix up Dundas west of University - including his plaza - elsewhere on UT.
 
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Indeed. For those arguments against chipped paint and stickiness, one can make counter-arguments against fingerprinted glass, hard-edged metal rails, etc...

Well, it's simply a case of which design has more surface area to clean. The original had much less surface area. Obviously, small diameter, round metal bars (mostly vertical) don't allow much to collect on them in the first place...as opposed to a large flat surface of clear glass. And the metal bars just need a wipe with a damp rag, while glass needs far more attention to keep it perfectly clear. The cleaners will have fun leaning over to clean the "other" side of the glass (or will they need sissor lifts or something to do it? ).

The other major issue with changing the railings, is that the original design is completely ubiquitous to the entire complex...both inside and outside. Are they going to change all those railings everywhere? They are on the bridges, the stairwells running up the side of the east wall of the mall (parking lot), all the balconies of the Galleria offices along the entire west wall of the mall. And they are all over the outside of the building. I can't see them doing this, so the continuity of railings will not be there.

CF have systematically been gradually ruining the entire design of the TEC for years anyway....that's why we are bitching about just "railings"...that's all that's left. It's easier to get rid of the railings when you have removed the other design elements that pulled it all together (light standards, sign posts, planters, water features, benches, garbage cans,etc). All those light standards were especially effective both design wise....and practical as well...looked great at night. The Galleria was never meant to only be lit by those giant arena lights hanging from the ceiling...it was the lamps that gave it a street feel.

Down by the "geese", there used to be this very cool set of 5 cascading "pod" like water features, full of plants (can't find any pics of it, but it can be seen in vintage youtube vids). They were one of the many elements that gave life and drama to the place. I assume they removed them because of cost reasons...at some point it probably needed new pumps, etc. It was probably a fairly complicated set up and not easy to maintain. Same with all the plants & trees...they cost money to maintain properly.

I noticed they also didn't know what to do with those tall concrete pillars that they had obviously removed whatever was originally on top of them, so they would top them with tacky displays...look at this ridiculous DIY contraption somebody actually though was a good display idea...WTF!!! Yea...let's turn it into a lame-ass "doric column". A primary school class could have done a better job of building this completely out-of-context joke.....


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The destruction of a Toronto architectural icon has meant that even Christopher Plummer will no longer get into drag to shop there....


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...but unlike RBP, it's part of the internets-message-board era. Thus, we're witnessing the reaction in real time; whereas RBP happened with nary a peep...

... though the latest chapter in RBP's downward spiral was completed less than two years ago. Hazelton Lanes strikes me as another example - it's as if they deliberately set out to make each reno worse than the one before.
 
They have improved the look of the place by many magnitudes. I honestly don't see any point to the arguments that they destroyed a heritage item and so forth. The metal railing were absolutely hideous, the new elevators look so much nicer, etc. etc.
 
They have improved the look of the place by many magnitudes.

Well, firstly, I think you can kiss your career as an architecture/design appraiser goodbye.

Secondly, I doubt you experienced the place in all its glory, before it was molested (say around circa 1980). My guess is you were not even close to being born yet (not saying taste totally hinges on age mind you...most people have zero their entire lives). If you were to have experienced the space where that cheap, shitty clothing store is now (H&M) you might feel differently. But hey, maybe not...I'm sure plenty of people think poorly made clothing is more important than well made architecture. That Dundas Mall section of TEC was what was hit worse by the current CF group of geniuses. That was once such a great space...the souring glass roof....the large scale art installations...that floating purple restaurant. But hey...why keep architecture when you can replace it with store space that pays rent and keeps the kiddies in their crappy fashion.

I honestly don't see any point to the arguments that they destroyed a heritage item and so forth.

Of course you wouldn't...you think Zeidler's original designs are "hideous". Right?

It has to do with being good stewards and preserving unique and important design.

Hey...it's private property...the owners can do whatever they like with their private property I guess. But I reserve a special kind of stupid for people so dumb they not only degrade the value of their own property...but pay good money to do it in the process. This is the kind of thing the city should have been on the ball about getting such an important city icon protected. But that would require some foresite, and since when did anybody at city hall have any of that? Hey...we're a city full of citizens and a mayor who would gladly get rid of our beloved streetcars too.

Reminds me of the Indian government who either threw out or sold off for "junk", all that Pierre Jeanneret furniture from Chandigarh back in the 80's. Some of that stuff is now selling for six figures a pop at auction. Oh....now they're trying to get all that shit back, cause they're now realizing that this whole Corbusier designed capital city is actually a masterpiece.
 
Hazelton Lanes strikes me as another example - it's as if they deliberately set out to make each reno worse than the one before.

Which is why it can't attract the carriage trade type stores any more. In its original late 70's/early 80's chic form, it had a very nice ambiance for high end boutiques. And it still would be if they hadn't "redesigned" it to look like a tacky suburban outlet mall.

Another one I miss in the area was the two floors of retail at 110 Bloor. That's still one of my favourite condo buildings...it's a shame they wrecked it by "updating" the two-level ground floors. Leave shit the way it was initially designed...if it was done well...it will always look best by not effing with it.

At least the Colonnade has managed to come through reasonably unscathed...so far.

Does anybody remember the original Village By The Grange? I thought it was such an unusual retail mall. I don't think a single element of the original remains. What a sad, sad place.
 
Well, firstly, I think you can kiss your career as an architecture/design appraiser goodbye.

Secondly, I doubt you experienced the place in all its glory, before it was molested (say around circa 1980). My guess is you were not even close to being born yet (not saying taste totally hinges on age mind you...most people have zero their entire lives). If you were to have experienced the space where that cheap, shitty clothing store is now (H&M) you might feel differently.

Indeed, you are right. However, my opinion stems from what the place has looked like in recent years. Whether or not it was architecturally beautiful in the 70s is a different story. What is important to me is that it looked like crap, and they had 2 options 1) restore it to "its former glory" or 2) go with a more modern design, and I honestly can't say that I blame them for choosing the latter and not the former. The place, in my opinion, is really starting to look great (especially the new railings, and elevators).
 
go with a more modern design

But it ISN'T more modern at all...it's just generic "new".

The Eaton Centre, as designed by EZ...now THAT was bloody modern.

When something is good, you keep it in its vintage form, cause there's nothing more pleasing than experiencing great vintage modern architecture and design in its pure, original form.

TEC is more than just its soaring glass roof. When it opened, the entire environment was jaw-droppingly modern, and was designed in the short-lived "High Tech" style. But the general public is fickle, and lose interest. After the Victorian period, people wanted nothing to do with it. In the post war era, people thought Art Deco was junk. But as always, as time passes, we now revisit those places and marvel at it....IF it has remained intact.

Sadly, this will never happen with the Eaton Centre, as it has been systematically turned into just another dull, generic mall, instead of the unique, architectural marvel it once was.
 
Sadly, this will never happen with the Eaton Centre, as it has been systematically turned into just another dull, generic mall, instead of the unique, architectural marvel it once was.

That's quite a stretch. I don't think you can turn Eaton Centre into a "dull, generic mall" without demolishing it and starting from scratch and/or moving it to the suburbs.

I'm not much of an Eaton Centre regular anymore, but what I can say is that changing the details alone can't kill the Eaton Centre. The location, the layout, the built form and the context that has now developed around it already makes it unique for me, and probably for all the Torontonians and tourists that are attracted to it.
 
though the latest chapter in RBP's downward spiral was completed less than two years ago.

I haven't been paying much attention to that place...what have they done recently?

I know they renovated the PATH area. I know this is the second reno they've done down there. The last one was quite awful. I vaguely remember the original...has some heavy textured concrete walls...was actually quite nice. Like most things in its original form, it had continuity with the entire space....like the big water feature and above it that awesome atrium and Soto's monumental Suspended Virtual Volume. What a crime. They can spend all the millions to keep "updating" the space they want...it will never be as impressive as it was.

Why do property owners do these seemingly self-destructive things to themselves?

I think it has to do with the giant shift that started back at the end of the 80's I think. That was when companies...products...design, etc became almost entirely "market driven". This is how we got to the mess we are in now. We decided to cater to what we thought the ignorant masses wanted...rather than the time when people who actually had talent, taste, style and knew what they were doing...DICTATED to the masses what was good style, and the masses generally listened. Talent stopped being important (and we lost a lot of talent as well), and the bean counters took over.

Yea dude...we aren't just getting "old"...shit really does suck now.
 
That's quite a stretch. I don't think you can turn Eaton Centre into a "dull, generic mall" without demolishing it and starting from scratch and/or moving it to the suburbs.

nnnnnnyaaa.....it's pretty much lost its mojo. So much of it has been altered, that it's almost sad to look at what little of it remains. I'm guessing you've never seen it in its original form either?

I'm trying to guess what is next. I'd say the riveted white metal housing around the escalators are gonna need to be changed to nice plain "modern" stainless steel. You don't have to worry about moving the Eaton Centre to the suburbs....the suburbs have moved to the Eaton Centre...out with architecture...in with big box outlets (Crappy Tire, Marks Work Warehouse, Best Buy).

what I can say is that changing the details alone can't kill the Eaton Centre.


Tell him that.....


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Does anybody remember the original Village By The Grange? I thought it was such an unusual retail mall. I don't think a single element of the original remains. What a sad, sad place.

The "food court" area at the north remains, at least in spirit.
 
The "food court" area at the north remains, at least in spirit.

Well, I've been in there...and no spirit of the past came to mind. The only thing that came to mid was..."this is such a depressing shithole". No wonder OCAD students are less creative than they used to be. Ginsberg & Wong have definitely left the building.

That place was destined to have a short life though...it was just too weird and quirky.
 

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