Toronto Sherbourne Common, Canada's Sugar Beach, and the Water's Edge Promenade | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto | Teeple Architects

[grey]

Your first sentence is not apparent from your conclusion while the second sentence makes absolutely no sense. Engaging personal judgment serves as an argument?
Anyway, let's keep our opinions about the waterfront. International travelers will be the judge of how great it is.

Can you please reply to freshcutgrass who completely eviscerated your argument with cold hard numbers? Eagerly awaiting your reply

 

[Tuscani01]

The Bund in Shanghai attracts half a million visitors on a normal day and over a million a day on holidays.

Um, what does the Bund have that Toronto doesn't have? The only thing the Bund had going for it was the view. I don't remember anything but a walkway along the river and a sight seeing tunnel (complete tourist trap). What exactly did I miss that Toronto doesn't have? Also, you cant even see the water from the Bund! The river is hidden behind a massive wall that runs along the entire Bund. You only see the water from atop the wall. In fact, I was bored out of my mind on the Bund. The real attractions are no where near the waterfront in Shanghai, much like here in Toronto.

If Shanghai's waterfront can attract half a million visitors with absolutely no major attraction, you just proved that Toronto doesn't need any flashy attractions on the waterfront either.

Also, If your number is correct, half a million visitors represents only 2% of Shanghai's population. To get a similar number of visitors based on Toronto's population, Toronto would only need 50,000 visitors per day. (2% of 2.5 mil.)

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Anyway, let's keep our opinions about the waterfront. International travelers will be the judge of how great it is.

Actually, lets have a city for the people of Toronto. You and your faux jet set pals can always find somewhere better.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Your first sentence is not apparent from your conclusion while the second sentence makes absolutely no sense. Engaging personal judgment serves as an argument?
Anyway, let's keep our opinions about the waterfront. International travelers will be the judge of how great it is.

Uhh... ksun... someone who doesn't realize they're being insulted and then uses the incomprehensible sentence "Engaging personal judgment serves as an argument?" needs to check their personal auto-correct.

I've gotten (a little more) used to the incessant negative whingeing about Toronto on UT, but I just don't understand it. Despite being in the throes of 'last massive push' construction, Harbourfront in the first week of May allowed me a venue to catch a craft beer in the sun with a buddy at the Amsterdam, watch a small sailboat regatta from Sugar Beach, check out the outdoor photo exhibition at Canada Square, see a classroom of kids spill out of the Power Plant and a different group from Harbourfront Centre, have a beer with friends at Against the Grain (there's a theme here... ) and catch a hockey game over dinner at Shoeless Joe's. All during three days' stay at the Radisson Admiral.

I didn't go into the Power Plant, catch a show at the Music Garden, grab the ferry to the Islands, nor take a kid to any or all of the splash pads. I didn't hit the dance theatre nor see a concert at the WestJet stage nor stay over the weekend to sample the fare at the annual chefs' showcase. Now that my kids are older, I no longer enroll them in the summer camps where they learn to do circus acts or canoe out in the harbour.

http://www.harbourfrontcentre.com/w..._id=&mode=week&week=21&year=2015&searchvenue=

16/25 of this week's events are free, but you can also pay to hang out with Dave Bidini of The Rheostatics or hear spoken word poetry or learn to silk screen. Whatever you do, go on down and enjoy, rather than spending your time whingeing about the waterfront. It'll surprise the heck out of you.

Bringing this back to the Sugar Beach thread: I bet that those big pink umbrellas, particularly if there's a Brazilian sugar boat being offloaded, will be one of the iconic fade-in shots of the Toronto Pan Am games. I bet the view of the city from Toronto island will be another. Quite possible that the wavedecks is another, and the line of maple trees at Sherbourne Commons (this time, looking out at the sailboats in the harbour) is another. QQ and Sugar Beach and Harbourfront might very well be the first stop for thousands of Pan Am tourists, just because they want to see what they saw on televison...

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Despite being in the throes of 'last massive push' construction, Harbourfront in the first week of May allowed me a venue to catch a craft beer in the sun with a buddy at the Amsterdam, watch a small sailboat regatta from Sugar Beach, check out the outdoor photo exhibition at Canada Square, see a classroom of kids spill out of the Power Plant and a different group from Harbourfront Centre, have a beer with friends at Against the Grain (there's a theme here... ) and catch a hockey game over dinner at Shoeless Joe's. All during three days' stay at the Radisson Admiral.

On behalf of the city, I'd like to apologize for the dull, uninspiring weekend you had to suffer through.

 

[Tuscani01]

Back to Sugar Beach...

I was browsing the Rede Record website (Brazilian Broadcaster) and came across their Pan Am section, which is listed on the home page. Check out some of the shots of Toronto that they are featuring...

http://rederecord.r7.com/pan-toront...ito-mais-que-esporte-no-pan-17052015#!/foto/2

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

On behalf of the city, I'd like to apologize for the dull, uninspiring weekend you had to suffer through.

Well, thanks... except it was a Monday night to Friday morning work week visit -- so, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday evenings.

 

[TrickyRicky]

While not the water's edge itself, referring to the map of Chicago waterfront posted by Tewder, I noted last week that Toronto FC, Toronto Rock, and the Jays were all playing home games last weekend. This is the central waterfront and those are all amenities. Maybe we could turn this thread around from "why is Toronto's central waterfront so poor and devoid of things to do, to what central waterfront in the world has more different things to see and do ?

 

[Tewder]

While not the water's edge itself, referring to the map of Chicago waterfront posted by Tewder, I noted last week that Toronto FC, Toronto Rock, and the Jays were all playing home games last weekend. This is the central waterfront and those are all amenities. Maybe we could turn this thread around from "why is Toronto's central waterfront so poor and devoid of things to do, to what central waterfront in the world has more different things to see and do ?

Tricky's definition of the waterfront, LOL:

There's only a major highway and 2 arterials between the ACC and the waterfront, but ok sure that's comparable to Chicago:

Likewise:

Go to the aquarium, or the train museum. Take a spin around the harbour on one of the pleasure boats. Rent a kayak. Stroll along the quayside. Visit the music garden. Sit in the sun. Read a book. Throw a ball around, or a frisbee. Do you really need a nanny to entertain you all the time?

I think i understand now why some are raving about the waterfront, they think that everything south of Bloor is included. Can we at least agree that it should be south of the Gardiner?

As for 'sitting in the sun', wow dream big. You can play with rocks and sticks there too you know!. I get it, you're a 'man of the people' and all that but seriously you need to get out more. Don't forget your sunscreen.

Again...you seem to have a severe reading comprehension problem. The Power Plant is but one facility at Harbourfront, that hosts 4000 different events. It IS "inclusive to all". How do you think Harbourfront ends up with those 17 million visitors??? It's the top attraction in the city (perhaps the country).

I'm glad that Harbourfront draws lots of people but come on, 17 million is a pretty self-aggrandizing claim... but whatevs', isn't this just a positive sign that people want to engage with their waterfront... even more? Harbourfront has been - and continues to be - part of the ongoing evolution of the waterfront, not it's final frontier. As Harbourfront has grown so too has the number of visitors... so why stop now? Where's the harm in wanting more? Where's the harm in wanting better architecture, better design, better accessibility, better events and destinations? This doesn't imply that what's already there isn't great, or at least it shouldn't.

... and yes, it is a pleasant place but not everybody shares your unmitigated zeal for it:

It claims to attract 17 million visitors annually to its 4-hectare site. That sounds good, but for the city’s culture lovers much of the thrill has gone. In the past decade or so, Harbourfront Centre has ceased to be the must-go destination if you wanted to experience cutting-edge arts events. And if Boyle once presided over Harbourfront’s rise, it’s a sad postscript that in recent years he has presided over its slow decline, as if the air were leaking out of its tires.

Some of us have happy memories of being introduced to Robert Lepage and his theatrical magic, Cirque du Soleil when it was new and magical, Soulpepper Theatre in its miraculous infancy, and huge cultural festivals about Japan and Denmark. A high point was the 2001 series of tributes to world leaders, each one an inspiring arts pioneer.

Now the experience has been downgraded from exciting to pleasant at best, an almost-dead zone at worst. Trips to Harbourfront these days seem to be mostly about minor ethnic community events, crafts and strolls along the waterfront. World Stage, instead of having the focus of an annual festival, is spread out over the year and has lost the impact it once had. The annual International Festival of Authors remains a signature event, but now it has to share the crowded fall literary calendar with many other events.
The most exciting thing that has happened lately at Harbourfront is the opening of its new underground parking facility, eliminating the eyesore of its old ground-level parking lot, which is now an appealing oasis.
But a parking garage is no substitute for a cultural renaissance. Our city and our artists have moved on, and Harbourfront is no longer where we look for inspiration and revelation.

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2014/05/16/torontos_tired_harbourfront_pins_hopes_on_australian_ceo.html

 

[Skeezix]

Could we please try and watch the tone? Some of these posts are so sarcastic and condescending that they are virtually unreadable. We could be having this same discussion minus the snark.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tricky's definition of the waterfront, LOL:

There's only a major highway and 2 arterials between the ACC and the waterfront, but ok sure that's comparable to Chicago:

As much as I am not a fan of the Gardiner, let's not be overly effusive with praise over Chicago:

A railway ditch and a parkway with so-so landscaping - right by Fields Museum. Things aren't that much better in front of Soldier's field either, if you care to dig it up.

Could we please try and watch the tone? Some of these posts are so sarcastic and condescending that they are virtually unreadable. We could be having this same discussion minus the snark.

+100.

MoD

 

[Tuscani01]

There's only a major highway and 2 arterials between the ACC and the waterfront, but ok sure that's comparable to Chicago:

Compared to 3 arterials and a major rail line to get to Chicago's waterfront?

And what about this section of Watefront? Does it not count?

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ch...0x880e2c3cd0f4cbed:0xafe0a6ad09c0c000!6m1!1e1

 

[salsa]

As much as I am not a fan of the Gardiner, let's not be overly effusive with praise over Chicago:

Chicago's waterfront has the unfortunate Lakeshore Drive to contend with. It's essentially a surface highway that's nearly impenetrable for pedestrians except at a few widely-spaced pedestrian tunnels. In many areas this road goes right up to the water, relegating the bikepath to a tree-less, concrete sliver of land.

Nice architecture though.

Things aren't that much better in front of Soldier's field either, if you care to dig it up.

Here it is.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Chicago's waterfront has the unfortunate Lakeshore Drive to contend with. It's essentially a surface highway that's nearly impenetrable for pedestrians except at a few widely-spaced pedestrian tunnels. In many areas this road goes right up to the water, relegating the bikepath to a tree-less, concrete sliver of land.

Nice architecture though.

I can't emphasize the bolded enough - now that QQ revitalization is coming to an end, you can really see how the sub par architecture of the strip really does a number on the general feel of the street.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

Chicago's waterfront has the unfortunate Lakeshore Drive to contend with. It's essentially a surface highway that's nearly impenetrable for pedestrians except at a few widely-spaced pedestrian tunnels. In many areas this road goes right up to the water, relegating the bikepath to a tree-less, concrete sliver of land.

'Impenetrable'? I'd take Lakeshore Drive over an elevated highway, railway tracks, berms, arterials and ramparts of condos! Besides, even in the best of scenarios Toronto will have arterials to contend with too, it's not really the point.

Nice architecture though.

We agree. Big and bold design ideas on offer, and not just the architecture.

Here it is.

Not the same, and i'm overlooking maintenance and upkeep:

The comparisons to Chicago are simply over-reaching, clearly. This doesn't mean that I or others don't love many aspects of Toronto's waterfront as it is, or that we don't see great potential in its future. We absolutely do. The notion that calling for more vision/grandeur in the central stretch makes anybody an uncouth, self-loathing Fordite or (somehow at the same time) an elitist, jet-setting Toronto basher needs to die soon. It's desperate.