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Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)

doady said:
They are not true regions like York and Durham.
Click to expand...

Actually, none of the GH regional municipalities are true "regions" in the sense they form a type of central nucleus and hinterland. They're basically arbitrary chunks of suburbs, exurbs, and rural areas surrounding Toronto. The only true RM's were Hamilton-Wentworth and Ottawa-Carleton, and these no longer exist.
 
I converted the "4 options" for the Dundas corridor from PDF to JPEG for easier viewing.
YB9imNA.jpg
 
  • I hope they consider a combination of subway to East Mall, and then BRT beyond.
  • Why does nobody ever consider extending the ECLRT to Square 1. They have already proven that a fully grade-separated ECLRT to YYZ is the best benefit-cost ratio. They could interline the existing BRT and the ECLRT extension to Sq.1 to ensure speed (and thus ridership).
  • If this study is dealing with Dundas, but they should show all the Bus routes that come down 427 and have to use Dundas for 2km. This could be alleviated with the subway extension to East Mall.
 
Transportfan said:
Actually, none of the GH regional municipalities are true "regions" in the sense they form a type of central nucleus and hinterland. They're basically arbitrary chunks of suburbs, exurbs, and rural areas surrounding Toronto. The only true RM's were Hamilton-Wentworth and Ottawa-Carleton, and these no longer exist.
Click to expand...

GH?
 
I see how it's nice to dream of a subway to Cooksville or even Square One, but what I got out of the materials is: it's a vast street with room for transit lanes, and the peak modelled demand with a subway is about what the SRT now carries.

At half again as long as the Scarborough extension, but with three more stations, we could guess 5 billion, for half the ridership. With the possibility of the "missing link" freeing up the existing rail line over to all-day passenger service in nearly the same corridor, how does thinking about a subway make any sense?
 
LRT on Dundas makes sense to me!

Extend the subway to Sherway and focus on LRT network in Mississauga so we can end that subway debate before it even begins.
 
BurlOak said:
  • I hope they consider a combination of subway to East Mall, and then BRT beyond.
  • Why does nobody ever consider extending the ECLRT to Square 1. They have already proven that a fully grade-separated ECLRT to YYZ is the best benefit-cost ratio. They could interline the existing BRT and the ECLRT extension to Sq.1 to ensure speed (and thus ridership).
  • If this study is dealing with Dundas, but they should show all the Bus routes that come down 427 and have to use Dundas for 2km. This could be alleviated with the subway extension to East Mall.
Click to expand...
The idea of the subway to Cloverdale/East Mall was raised in 2005 and 2008 by the ex ward councilor and shot down by the commission. I supported both motions at the various meetings for TTC as well Metrolinx EA's, since it make sense. It will kick start the development plan for the area.

The Regional/Gateway hub was to be there under the Big Move, yet an small one is still plan to be built at Kipling by 2019.

Metrolinx has miss the boat since day one to get the subway one stop built, as well TTC. Kipling is out dated today for TTC needs, let alone any service increase.

Until the subway is built, an BRT is the way to go because of the distance within Toronto. By right, an LRT is needed on Dundas as far as Hurontario if you going to do thing right and once..

For the next 2-3 decade, express buses west of Hurontario before needing a true BRT ROW in Mississauga, let alone Halton.

As for buses on 427, it would be a great idea showing all routes using it as well plan ones to show how much dead heading is taking place going to Kipling compare to the subway extension.

The Transitway from Renforth to Sq One is built to support both BRT and LRT.

There has been ideas floated over the years of spiting the The Eglinton LRT into 2 routes at Renforth.

The 2004 EA numbers for Renforth for peak service from Renforth to Sq One was 11,000 that justify an LRT extension. Reading between the lines of the EA, the numbers are skew to the point that most of the ridership will be GO going to/from the east of Renforth.

There is nothing stopping Dundas being both BRT and LRT east of Hurontario in its own Joint ROW, but local bus service will still be needed because of the stop spacing distance. Going west will be a mixture of local and express for decades until there is an need for an ROW since the density is not there now or will be for decades. Halton will be the last place to see an ROW BRT.

The BRT on Dundas from Kipling to Burlington is been driven by Metrolinx to have one seamless service/route on it and that is their own.
 
Yonge to Richmond Hill will be the second anomaly. (I agree it shouldn't go beyond 427, maybe Sherway)
 
BurlOak said:
Yonge to Richmond Hill will be the second anomaly. (I agree it shouldn't go beyond 427, maybe Sherway)
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I think that Richmond Hill will face lots of scrutiny when it will be time to look at it again...much more than last time. Their EA is outdated and need to be redone. This time LRT to Steeles should be evaluated too as an option, which it wasn't last time.
 
Any heavy rail Line 2 extension west of Kipling may, likely, mean short turns at Kipling Station. Can't see a six-car train every 1 to 2 minutes in the rush hour.

Even a six-car train every 5 minutes on a Sunday, west of Kipling, may not have the ridership. Again, every other train will short-turn at Kipling.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Any heavy rail Line 2 extension west of Kipling may, likely, mean short turns at Kipling Station. Can't see a six-car train every 1 to 2 minutes in the rush hour.

Even a six-car train every 5 minutes on a Sunday, west of Kipling, may not have the ridership. Again, every other train will short-turn at Kipling.
Click to expand...
If you extend the line west one stop, you will have almost the same amount of riders as today.

You will move all TTC Routes except for 3 to a larger station for them compare to what there is at Kipling today, all MT routes, most of the parking to a new parking structure, gain a few riders going to Cloverdale Mall and new riders from the new development plan for the area. You should get the same riders using GO if they are using TTC.

A lot easier to run an Mississauga LRT to the new station and reduce the cost of the line as well.

Provide a faster and shorter trip for everyone. Reduce dead heading cost for TTC & MT.

If you take the line to Sherway, every 2nd off peak and 3rd train at peak is only needed to server it.
 
Off peak.

I thought the short turns would only be during rush hour (i.e. 2 minute service to Kipling and 4 minute service to Sherway). You save yourself a train or two by doing this, and still provide reasonable headways.

Off peak, I don't think people would be happy with 10 minute service to Sherway with every 2nd train short turned. Off peak, there is no shortage of trains, so having an extra train on the tracks is not a problem.
 
I only see a reason to short-turn trains at Kipling in the scenario where we also short-turn trains at Kennedy with the Scarborough Subway Extension.
 
BurlOak said:
Off peak.

I thought the short turns would only be during rush hour (i.e. 2 minute service to Kipling and 4 minute service to Sherway). You save yourself a train or two by doing this, and still provide reasonable headways.

Off peak, I don't think people would be happy with 10 minute service to Sherway with every 2nd train short turned. Off peak, there is no shortage of trains, so having an extra train on the tracks is not a problem.
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They run subway trains in New York City, in the non-rush hours, every 10 minutes. Other U.S. cities, run subway trains every 20 minutes, in the non-rush hours.

They should be doing that with our Line 4 Sheppard line, every 10 minutes in the non-hour hours.
 
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