Toronto Dundas Square Gardens | 156.05m | 50s | Gupta | IBI Group

[Uptowner]

With all the activity going on at this intersection these days I fear for Fillmore's

Filmore's was the first strip club I ever went to, and I was 18. Exciting! Went back a half year ago with some people from work and found that the attendants had the snobbiest attitude I have ever encountered almost anywhere. Considering what a dump the area was I thought it was hilarious. Makes me hope they rip that place down and salt and bleach the ground 50 feet deep before it gets rebuilt. Maybe a bit of an overreaction and I guess I probably think there should be some strip clubs downtown.

The hotel above is sketchy as hell and would probably be better redeveloped.

 

[kotsy]

Filmore's was the first strip club I ever went to, and I was 18. Exciting! Went back a half year ago with some people from work and found that the attendants had the snobbiest attitude I have ever encountered almost anywhere. Considering what a dump the area was I thought it was hilarious. Makes me hope they rip that place down and salt and bleach the ground 50 feet deep before it gets rebuilt. Maybe a bit of an overreaction and I guess I probably think there should be some strip clubs downtown.

That reminds me of a time my friends and I went to Jilly's as a joke and decided to sit in the front row for the 'full experience'. There we were cracking jokes with each other barely paying any attention to the dancer. Instead of ramping up her show to grab our attention she decided to call us a bunch of losers and asked why the hell we were there lol

 

[Edward Skira]

That reminds me of a time my friends and I went to Jilly's as a joke and decided to sit in the front row for the 'full experience'. There we were cracking jokes with each other barely paying any attention to the dancer. Instead of ramping up her show to grab our attention she decided to call us a bunch of losers and asked why the hell we were there lol

Well she's working. I'm sure she's probably aware that you guys are not going to help her make money.

 

[NBGtect]

Which begs the question: if the entire downtown is being gentrified with new condos, Starbucks and banks, where do strippers work once they are kicked out? Around the airport I guess; which kind of suggests that the suburbs will be more diverse and have more ranges of retail, etc., in the future once the full Manhattanization of Toronto takes hold. One just needs to look to downtown Chicago to see how boring retail is in the core. That's our future.

 

[Lenser]

I wonder the same thing. Who can afford killer rents in such markets except the big chains? Makes for a dreary, generic sameness throughout the core. I suppose it's inevitable but it definitely isn't my cuppa.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Which begs the question: if the entire downtown is being gentrified with new condos, Starbucks and banks, where do strippers work once they are kicked out? Around the airport I guess; which kind of suggests that the suburbs will be more diverse and have more ranges of retail, etc., in the future once the full Manhattanization of Toronto takes hold. One just needs to look to downtown Chicago to see how boring retail is in the core. That's our future.

Nothing new in that, unfortunately...

 

[ShonTron]

One way we can fix the problem with retail sterilization is removing the property tax breaks given to landlords with vacant retail spaces. For example, the space once-occupied by Pages on Queen Street remains vacant; if the landlord wasn't able to count on the tax break, it may not have been in such a hurry to terminate/not renew a lease without a guaranteed new tenant.

If it results in lower rent (to fill the space), we could see more interesting, fewer blue-chip tenants, in these new retail spaces.

 

[gabe]

Which begs the question: if the entire downtown is being gentrified with new condos, Starbucks and banks, where do strippers work once they are kicked out? Around the airport I guess; which kind of suggests that the suburbs will be more diverse and have more ranges of retail, etc., in the future once the full Manhattanization of Toronto takes hold. One just needs to look to downtown Chicago to see how boring retail is in the core. That's our future.

I wonder the same thing. Who can afford killer rents in such markets except the big chains? Makes for a dreary, generic sameness throughout the core. I suppose it's inevitable but it definitely isn't my cuppa.

Also NYC has become a mecca of overpriced flagship stores and corporate chains. Pushing the smaller independent boutiques either out of business or to the outer boroughs. It's happening in Toronto.

 

[Stupidandshallow]

One way we can fix the problem with retail sterilization is removing the property tax breaks given to landlords with vacant retail spaces. For example, the space once-occupied by Pages on Queen Street remains vacant; if the landlord wasn't able to count on the tax break, it may not have been in such a hurry to terminate/not renew a lease without a guaranteed new tenant.

If it results in lower rent (to fill the space), we could see more interesting, fewer blue-chip tenants, in these new retail spaces.

Ugh. THIS! I can't believe landlords can get a tax break for their vacant commercial space in Downtown Toronto. Absolutely ludicrous!

 

[ksun]

I wonder the same thing. Who can afford killer rents in such markets except the big chains? Makes for a dreary, generic sameness throughout the core. I suppose it's inevitable but it definitely isn't my cuppa.

1) big chains aren't necessarily worse.
2) check out Uncle Tetsu at Bay/Dundas, people line up for 2 hours to buy a $10 cheesecake for almost a year now. Check out some of the small Ramen place, people line up for an hour in the middle of winter just to have a bowl of noodles. Small business can prosper. The problem is simply that most small businesses don't really provide much interesting after all.

If a small business doesn't really offer anything uniquely interesting, I am not sad to see them pushed away. Worse thing is, they usually command a much higher price. We should stop this chains are boring, small business is always better mentality. Often it is not true.

 

[Lenser]

Ugh. THIS! I can't believe landlords can get a tax break for their vacant commercial space in Downtown Toronto. Absolutely ludicrous!

It is pretty crazy. It's time this was switched up. I see the same sorts of problems cropping up in places like Riverside and Leslieville. It's an incentive for landlords to leave their properties empty for prolonged periods of time.

 

[Lenser]

Ksun: large chains, and nothing but, are an abomination. They are the very definition of corporate sterility. You might personally take comfort in their presence but there are lots of people, visitors and residents alike, who expect to discover and delight in true diversity, not block after block marked by the same old brands, no matter how titanic or monied they might be.

 

[ksun]

Ksun: large chains, and nothing but, are an abomination. They are the very definition of corporate sterility. You might personally take comfort in their presence but there are lots of people, visitors and residents alike, who expect to discover and delight in true diversity, not block after block marked by the same old brands, no matter how titanic or monied they might be.

Yes, I agree. I would hate to see out streets filled with the sameness you see in every other city.

However, my point was just because a business is not a chain doesn't make it automatically interesting. More often than not, they are exactly like a chain, only with higher prices due to the lack of scale. I just had brunch at one of the individual restaurant on church yesterday - the burger I had is worse than McDonald's or Wendy's, at twice the price. I literally left 2/3 uneaten and left.

We should judge a business based on what it actually offers, whether it is a chain or not shouldn't matter. The mistake we often make is chain=evil, small business =good. In many case, the goal of small business is to become one of those chains. They just aren't there yet.

 

[Lenser]

Small businesses can indeed suck. But I welcome the presence of good ones - they add lustre and local colour to the mix. What's important is both comprehensive diversity and a high quality of goods and services offered, for a range of taste and affordability.

Unfortunately, even successful small businesses have a tough time competing with big-pocketed chains for good locations in the core.

 

[grey]

1) big chains aren't necessarily worse.

No, but they usually are.

We should stop this chains are boring, small business is always better mentality. Often it is not true.

That mentality exists because it's accurate, more often than not. Small businesses aren't always better than chains, but for every chain, there's often a far superior independent alternative (particularly in the culinary world).

However, my point was just because a business is not a chain doesn't make it automatically interesting. More often than not, they are exactly like a chain, only with higher prices due to the lack of scale. I just had brunch at one of the individual restaurant on church yesterday - the burger I had is worse than McDonald's or Wendy's, at twice the price. I literally left 2/3 uneaten and left.

This is a bad anecdote. You had a bad restaurant burger one time that was worse than the terrible burgers from two equally awful chains? This one restaurant burger suddenly represents all indie burgers to you? You could have gone to Dac Biet Burger (also on Church), but no, Wendy's and Mcdonald's are your points of comparison. Weak, ksun... Expand your horizons! Toronto is in the midst of a gastronomic renaissance. Life's too short to be eating bad burgers.

We should judge a business based on what it actually offers, whether it is a chain or not shouldn't matter.

I actually agree with this, but I believe it can and has been proven empirically that big chains tend to offer inferior product and that the lower costs often carry negative social/ethical/environmental consequences.