Do a large proportion of Torontonians have family members (few generations removed) in the US?

[wild goose chase]

I am curious about this, since I am a Torontonian living in the States right now and once in a while, I will hear about someone who has family in my hometown, and will talk to me about it.

Canada and the US as nations obviously shared a long history of people moving back and forth across the border, from the United Empire Loyalists and onward. As the largest Canadian city where people are very mobile, I'd imagine many people with genealogies that span both our city and the country to our south.

There have been many shared waves of immigrants too (eg. European immigrants in the 19th and 20th century such as Italians and Irish, that came to both countries, refugees in the Vietnam era, West Indian immigration etc.).

Plus, the latest wave of immigration might have this too (I hear people who have applied for citizenship in both the US and Canada are really common, and if they get one, or have family in one, they may join the other).

Is it likely that this results in a large proportion of people with family ties (maybe if not immediate, but two or three generations removed) in both countries? Scenarios where one side of the family could be Americans and the other side Canucks?

 

[Johnny Au]

That is how those within their own extended family can become bitter rivals, when it comes to international sports.

 

[wild goose chase]

Anyone know if there are references or sources, like books, statistics, etc. regarding the question of how likely connected immigrant waves historically were between Canada and the US more broadly?

What communities may be shared between the US and Canada, as opposed to families migrating to each country independently kind of interests me. How likely is it that an Irish Torontonian has relatives in Boston, or an Italian Torontonian has ties to New Jersey, or a Chinese Torontonian to San Francisco? I would imagine it would differ a lot between the groups and their regional histories.

I know its easy to get stats like the history of immigrant waves by number and proportion by country, but how closely linked immigrant waves were between destination countries seems not an easy question to answer.

If you know any sources, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[Memph]

My background is French Canadian/Irish/Hungarian. On the French Canadian/Irish side, I know one Irish ancestor (5-6 generations back?) lived in Wisconsin at one point and met his wife there (of French ancestry) but then they moved to Quebec and as far as I know, their descendants all stayed in Quebec since then (except an uncle who moved to France) as did all my other French ancestors. On my Hungarian side though, there were others that immigrated to other parts of the Americas, I don't know them, they're somewhat distant relatives, my closer relatives are all still in Hungary, but my grandparents know some of them, one was in Vancouver, another in NYC, and maybe there were 1-2 others in the States, I don't remember.

 

[torontologist]

Yeah, this is definitely "a thing", particularly in immigrant communities. Not sure where you'd get stats or info though.

People having family in both countries resulting from war resisters crossing the border in the 60s-70s is also pretty common.

 

[King of Kensington]

Does anyone know how many war resisters came to the city? They've obviously had a cultural influence on the city way out of proportion to their numbers.

 

[Translude15]

My father is Scottish born but of Irish and English descent. After his uncle (his father's brother) left Ireland in the late 1920s and settled in New Jersey, the plan was for my father's family was to make the trek across the Atlantic and immigrate to the US. At this point he hadn't even been born yet but those plans were derailed after the uncle (my great uncle) was killed in a mining accident in Pennsylvania. My relatives in NJ are distant cousins but coming from a large family, we keep in touch with them because of how close the family was in Ireland. There is a definite shared Irish experience of sorts that has kept both families together over the years.

As for my more immediate family, my father came from a large family of 9. Being British subjects, the majority immigrated to Canada in the late 50s. After living in Toronto for a number of years my aunt ended up in Alaska for a time before settling in suburban Chicago. My first cousins were raised there and one remains while another is now located outside of Dallas.

From my experiences it seems there are definitely considerable family ties on both sides of the border for a lot of folks. A lot of this seems to be the result of circumstance whether relocating for employment or schooling. I particularly noticed this during a visit to New York City last month, whereby many New Yorkers who asked where we were from always had some sort of Canadian family connection, particularly in Toronto.

 

[King of Kensington]

Does anyone know how many war resisters came to the city? They've obviously had a cultural influence on the city way out of proportion to their numbers.

To answer my question, according to the NHS there were 16,675 people born in the US who came to the Toronto CMA before 1981. Of course this doesn't include only war resisters, or take into account foreign-born Americans, or account for how many have left the city and died.

 

[wild goose chase]

Thinking about it, I wonder if more broadly, newer immigrant cities (where a large % of people are foreign born) in both Canada and the US, also have a higher percentage of people whose families are split between the two, because people who immigrate now are far more independent and mobile than past generations (not just access to airplanes, but also more globalization, international workers, students etc.) and maybe apply to citizenship in both countries.

I wonder if there is more independent migration now (where a skilled person migrates but leaves their family behind) compared to chain migration (eg. everyone and their grandma in a village packs their stuff and gets on a boat).

 

[wild goose chase]

Of course this doesn't include only war resisters, or take into account foreign-born Americans, or account for how many have left the city and died.

Could you look at those who arrived within a span of time? Say, between, 1966 and 1981, rather than before a certain point in general?
Also, to be fair, I wouldn't expect foreign-born Americans were any less likely to get drafted (unless there was anything about the draft that excluded non-native born citizens?). although you would exclude foreign born Americans who arrived too late for it obviously.

 

[King of Kensington]

I got the best data I could get. "Before 1971" and "1971-1981" is what's available.

 

[wild goose chase]

I wonder if certain communities relate easily much to people of the same ancestral ethnic origin but on the other side of the border. I've heard that for instance, sometimes even Asian-Americans from California may find Asian-Canadians from Ontario culturally somewhat different.