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Did many South Asian immigrants to Toronto arrive after those in US cities like Chicago and NYC?

wild goose chase

wild goose chase

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Currently the GTA has one of the largest South Asian or Indian origin populations in North America, and is close to matching if not rivalling the NYC metro area (numbers seem to range into the 600 000s for specifically those who claim Indian-descent). Within the US, the Chicago area has the second-largest but today it is not particularly really a large destination for people from that part of the world, or a major immigration hub in general like it was earlier.

One thing I noticed was that an Indian food grocery store, Patel Brothers, as I made a thread asking about (http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/the-patel-brothers-indian-food-grocery-stores-in-the-gta.25428/) started off in Chicago in the 1974. It's interesting that despite Toronto having such a huge community of South Asians, there's a grocery store chain first founded by Indian Chicagoans that serves the GTA. Now currently there are considerably more Indian Torontonians than Indian Chicagoans but perhaps at some point the reverse was true? I wonder if this means that at one point (perhaps the earlier arrivals of the post 1965 wave, or those in the 70s or 80s), Toronto's South Asian community lagged behind those of their US counterparts, and looked southward for a shared market, in addition to perhaps family ties, before coming into its own with critical mass and then later surpassing other US cities?

Then again, the Indo-Canadian communities (like with East Asians) on the west coast/BC seem to also have been a little bit older than those in Ontario or the GTA though I don't know if many Asian-Canadians in Ontario are tied more to their counterparts on the West coast or those stateside.
 
No, I don't think South Asian communities are "newer" in Canada than in the US.

There's also a significant difference in the religious, cultural and class composition between South Asians here and in the US. While the NYC area has an extraordinarily diverse and largely working class South Asian population, in most US cities the South Asian population is made up of affluent Hindus. The GTA also has a diverse South Asian population, while in Western Canada they're mostly Punjabi Sikhs.
 
King of Kensington said:
No, I don't think South Asian communities are "newer" in Canada than in the US.

There's also a significant difference in the religious, cultural and class composition between South Asians here and in the US. While the NYC area has an extraordinarily diverse and largely working class South Asian population, in most US cities the South Asian population is made up of affluent Hindus. The GTA also has a diverse South Asian population, while in Western Canada they're mostly Punjabi Sikhs.
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Even though there doesn't appear to be by any numbers I've seen, noticeably a higher or lower proportion of South Asian Torontonians who are native-born vs. foreign-born than their stateside counterparts, for some reason, I feel like the diaspora in the GTA is much more connected to Asia than many other North American cities, or maybe has a higher proportion that arrived recently, even among South Asian-born.

I'd admit that this is just my perception which might not reflect a random sample, but it seems like in some cities like Chicago, many young people of South Asian descent (say in their 20s or 30s or even younger) speak English with an American accent, while many young people who speak with a South Asian accent are more likely to be a non-US citizen or international student studying in one of the city's numerous colleges/universities. In Toronto, someone who speaks with a South Asian accent and who is studying at a local college/university is much more likely to be a Canadian citizen, which to me seems to imply a higher proportion of citizens who arrived in Toronto in later childhood/teens/adulthood or naturalized as a citizen within recent years or the last decade or two. The divide between native and foreign born Asian North Americans more broadly just seems larger stateside (where it seems that many born and bred Americans dislike being conflated/lumped into the group of those who are actually foreigners/non-citizens or naturalized newer immigrants whereas here it seems like there's more a continuum between recently arrived and native born in cultural continuity). Another thing I noticed is that politicians in the US who have South Asian last names tend to be more native-born than their Canadian counterparts who seem to be more evenly split between overseas born and native born.

It also seems like our city and even Southern Ontario seems to punch above its weight in ties/connection to Bollywood relative to US cities.
 
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Another thing I think (but I don't think I've seen numbers for) is that reported demographics for US and Canadian censuses include not only citizens and permanent residents but also some people who are other countries' citizens staying temporarily like those on working visas which might influence the numbers and maybe the socio-economic stats might be different if only citizens are counted.

I think the US has many more people who are non-American South Asians on visas like H1B and international students arriving recently while Canada not so much (though there has been a slight shift in some places to temporary workers). I have a hunch that if you exclude them (or anyone else who is temporary and non-citizen) and look at only Americans and Canadians of South Asian descent, the Canadian populace probably has a higher % foreign born.

Yet another hunch I have (but again I have no numbers) is that Canada's share of South Asian descended people seem to come from more diverse countries not only in South Asia (more even split between Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Indians) but elsewhere like Guyana, Trinidad, even Africa (eg. Naheed Nenshi who is Torontonian born but has roots in the South Asian diaspora in Tanzania).
 
Should be easy enough to pull census data to answer the question.

Though the one thing I noticed in New York City, is that there was clearly a large Gujarati population that I haven't noticed in Toronto (or if there is, I haven't encountered where it is hiding). And with a name like "Patel Brothers", I'm guessing there's a significant Gujarati population in Chicago as well!
 
It's also notable that Gujaratis dominate the motel industry stateside -- apparently this has a history going as far back as the 1940s!

However, Indo-Canadians aren't associated particularly with the motel/hotel industry, unlike Indian-Americans.

On the other hand, Punjabi-Canadians do dominate the trucking industry, in Ontario.
 
wild goose chase said:
Currently the GTA has one of the largest South Asian or Indian origin populations in North America, and is close to matching if not rivalling the NYC metro area (numbers seem to range into the 600 000s for specifically those who claim Indian-descent). Within the US, the Chicago area has the second-largest but today it is not particularly really a large destination for people from that part of the world, or a major immigration hub in general like it was earlier.

One thing I noticed was that an Indian food grocery store, Patel Brothers, as I made a thread asking about (http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/the-patel-brothers-indian-food-grocery-stores-in-the-gta.25428/) started off in Chicago in the 1974. It's interesting that despite Toronto having such a huge community of South Asians, there's a grocery store chain first founded by Indian Chicagoans that serves the GTA. Now currently there are considerably more Indian Torontonians than Indian Chicagoans but perhaps at some point the reverse was true? I wonder if this means that at one point (perhaps the earlier arrivals of the post 1965 wave, or those in the 70s or 80s), Toronto's South Asian community lagged behind those of their US counterparts, and looked southward for a shared market, in addition to perhaps family ties, before coming into its own with critical mass and then later surpassing other US cities?

Then again, the Indo-Canadian communities (like with East Asians) on the west coast/BC seem to also have been a little bit older than those in Ontario or the GTA though I don't know if many Asian-Canadians in Ontario are tied more to their counterparts on the West coast or those stateside.
Click to expand...


South Asian especially Indians are here in Canada even from the time 1930. They are also contributing to our economy very well, so this is not correct in all sense
 
Except those coming to Ellis Island were disenfranchised, not millionaires. Read about Brexit in the UK. One thing recently said about it is that it would freeze house-price increases. England has been experiencing the kind of house price increases Toronto, Vancouver, etc., have. 15% a year, vastly outstripping inflation and wages. If you were to stop the offshore Chinese buying Toronto properties over $1 million, 63% of the sales would disappear and house prices would be forced to drop. Why would that be bad, when most of inflation and wage degradation are CAUSED by house price increases? Get the UK out of the EU and GET the offshore Chinese out of buying in Canada.
 
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