Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension | Page 53

Discussion in 'Transportation and Infrastructure' started by kEiThZ, May 12, 2017.

  1. syn

    syn Senior Member

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    Wouldn't the Bloor/Danforth extension component alone be many billions of dollars? That alone doesn't seem feasible.

    Like Tiger I also laughed when I realized the Sheppard Extensions were just one stop each, but that could make sense if you could add stops later. I wouldn't consider it a priority though.

    I have no idea why they're even considering putting a Scarborough B/D extension underground - it's going to cost a premium. Why not just keep it above ground like other sections of the subway?
     

  2. BurlOak

    BurlOak Senior Member

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    What SSE shows us is that deep tunneling is expensive too, even with only 1 stop. Deep also means more difficult emergency exits, which are still required.
     
  3. M II A II R II K

    M II A II R II K Senior Member

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    For the job this one stop extension is supposed to do it would be much better to keep the existing RT stretch from SCC to Ellesmere which would do the same job of connecting you with the Stouffville Line and add an Ellesmere GO station there.

    All this extension does is add the convenience of a one stop transfer to Lines 2, and 5. And plus if you’re going from SCC to Markham you would be headed in the opposite direction to connect with GO to end up further from your destination from where you started off.
     
  4. OneCity

    OneCity Active Member

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    There's a good chance in the next phase the subway will be extended thru Agincourt (not up McCowan) linking the Sheppard subway and GO RER/Smartrack in the future. A stop could be added at "City Centre North-West" at Progress/Brimley. Eglinton East will be connected thru Malvern and link up in Agincourt via Finch or Sheppard.
     
  5. M II A II R II K

    M II A II R II K Senior Member

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    Or perhaps have Line 4 veer south at Victoria Park to connect at Ellesmere and head straight east to SCC, and be extended further east after that and rebrand it as the Uptown Line.
     
  6. OneCity

    OneCity Active Member

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    Not sure that's possible. By the time any extension occurs decades from now Agincourt will be very well built up and any approach to cut short could see similar political backlash as we saw with the SSE. Possibly in the future a LRT from Ellesmere into Malvern thru the City Centre on the old RT but it likely wont happen as the Politics could get petty trying to use the old RT corridor in our generation of councillors given the recent history.

    I imagine this Ellesmere location along the rail corridor is a very low priority at this time when compared to possible stop location in Agincourt or Malvern. I would love to see a stop there in the future either from a BRT , GO RER or City Centre LRT but I don't see the case for it as a priority moving forward in the next phase.

    Completion of Scarborough Durham BRT, extending LRT into Malvern and subway or LRT into Agincourt will likely be the next Scarborough oriented priorities following Eglinton East and SSE. Having GO RER already running thru Agincourt make it even more valuable as a connection point if the subway (or LRT) is extended.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  7. muller877

    muller877 Senior Member

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    I know i will be shot but....

    Why are they insisting that it should be an extension of the Danforth Line? If it is one stop (and 6 km) should we consider an alternative one stop connection...as an extension of the Sheppard line. Then once the DRL is build STC is only a couple of stops from the DRL.

    The line can be built with shorter subway cars (so the stations are cheaper). As well STC would not have to make do with construction temporary bus service while it is being built.

    Plus the DRL serves a good N-S connector in the east along with a RER-type service (and we don't need 3 N-S lines without an E-W line)
     
  8. M II A II R II K

    M II A II R II K Senior Member

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    I guess a Stoufville Line spur could have gone to SCC, and the train would be easier to catch since the trains are longer.
     
  9. OneCity

    OneCity Active Member

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    If that was possible the semi "fantasy" plan in addition to the spur would be:
    • Seamless Kingston Rd(Brimley Bluffs)-SCC-Malvern Town Centre LRT
    • Eglinton East LRT to the Zoo and Malvern.
    • Scarborough-Durham BRT
    • Sheppard Subway or stubway LRT conversion to SCC
    May not have the same frequency as the subway but no hacked in transfers, great access to the Citys core, great local transit to schools, priority neighbourhoods and local attractions. But our debate is politically poisoned on both sides between transfer LRT vs. subways.

    The proposed LRT lines missed the mark of potential from the get go. No Malvern Town Centre, No Zoo (cut), No Bluffs, No Rouge, disappearing SMLRT line and lack of funding.... This all on top of the poor connectivity, it was not a very good effort. And the pro LRT opposition has kept the same flawed plan to promote to this very day with no change? There was so much room for improvement in Transit City alone. But yes back to the debate over deep bore no stop subways vs. "evidence based" transfer LRT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  10. Hopkins123

    Hopkins123 Active Member

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    It's as if some people have never been to northern Scarborough to witness first hand the density around Bay Mills or Agincourt. There's like 100 apartment buildings in that region that a Sheppard subway along Sheppard proper is perfectly suited to cater to. No need to veer the subway off Sheppard prior to the Stoufville GO corridor if not all the way to McCowan. If we ever get around to extending the subway, let's do it right this time, please. No more stubs!
     
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  11. WislaHD

    WislaHD Senior Member

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    I was away from this thread for two months and y'all managed to make 30 pages of posts...

    This is the crux of the matter.

    I would build a BRT on every single arterial road in Scarborough, both in north-south and east-west directions, for the money that Scarborough Subway costs.

    Do you know how rapidly a bus can travel on it's own dedicated ROW? Much much much quicker than a subway ever could.

    Do you know how many people that would service? 100% of Scarberians.
     
  12. OneCity

    OneCity Active Member

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    Agree 100% more BRT would have been greater than LRT if we started from scratch. With no stubway, no subway to Vaughan, no LRT sprouting thru Eglinton. Unfortunately we do need to look at what was built in similar areas of the City and how we connect to what exists it and stop looking at Scarboorugh (or Scarberia as you call it) as an island

    That is basically the heart of the debate. People from Scarborough see what was built in similar areas and what exists to connect into. They see the crappy disjointed failure of an RT that was build as a standalone technology. People within the core see Scarborough as some far away place which should continue to be isolated.

    Might as well finish the LRT on Eglinton now and might as well finish the subway we started now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  13. WislaHD

    WislaHD Senior Member

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    How exactly do you think the rest of the city is connected?

    By buses heading to rapid transit.
     
  14. OneCity

    OneCity Active Member

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    Buses connected to subways, buses connected to streetcars, buses connect to LRT now. Same thing Scarborough is asking for. We started to extend the subway... Lets finish it. And now we started to extend LRT on Eglinton.. Lets finish it.

    Patch work creates unnecessary transfer is terrible design and planning. If BRT is the idea than it should have been planned that way. But you don't change the game part way thru to save some money at other expense
     
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  15. WislaHD

    WislaHD Senior Member

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    But we are doing none of that.

    We are building a 6km 1-stop subway that removes stations where buses could connect too, adds transfer time, and reaches very few Scarberians.
     
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