General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[Napoleon]

Expropriation - this was exactly what was done for the Mimico waterfront promenade.

Property owners wouldn't play ball? Well we just take your land anyway.

Bingo, private property owners have no business blocking something like this that is clearly in the public interest. Some minimal compensation and take it away. I didn't actually think there were any homes in this section though…mostly just a couple ugly giant apartment buildings and a construction site.

 

[smably]

I assume this is what the "mid-Humber gap" feasibility study is referring to? http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-83532.pdf#page=9

 

[the lemur]

I assume this is what the "mid-Humber gap" feasibility study is referring to? http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pw/bgrd/backgroundfile-83532.pdf#page=9

Yes. I can't think what else it would be. Right now you can bike from the mouth of the Humber to either Finch & 427 or Steeles between Kipling & Islington, but either way you have to get off the trail between Weston Rd/St Phillips Rd and Fairglen Cres/Cardell Ave.

There's also a gap between South Humber Park/Stephen Dr and Humber Marshes Park/Humber Valley Rd, which is even longer, but I'd call that the lower Humber gap ... not sure that can really be remedied without crossing and recrossing the river.

 

[Napoleon]

There's also a gap between South Humber Park/Stephen Dr and Humber Marshes Park/Humber Valley Rd, which is even longer, but I'd call that the lower Humber gap ... not sure that can really be remedied without crossing and recrossing the river.

The Southern gap has really never bothered me. There's never that much traffic and bike lanes. My biggest suggestions there would be additional signage...when I did it the first time a few years ago you basically had to already know where you were going.

Wouldn't hurt to improve the condition of the trail a bit in Humber Park, there are some serious rough spots.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The Southern gap has really never bothered me. There's never that much traffic and bike lanes. My biggest suggestions there would be additional signage...when I did it the first time a few years ago you basically had to already know where you were going.

Wouldn't hurt to improve the condition of the trail a bit in Humber Park, there are some serious rough spots.

That Southern gap does bother me.

More so that the short gap at Old Dundas Street. Bothers me why they couldn't join the bicycle path, unless they're going to rebuild the Old Dundas Street bridge over the Humber River (not).

 

[ShonTron]

My assumption was that the valley was really tight around the railway crossing at Weston, which is why that's so delayed as a solution could be found. (And the construction of the bridge widening, of course.) I did not know that the few houses on Humberview Crescent had property rights right down to the river, so thanks for the update, Salsa.

The lower Humber gap is annoying more because you have to up and then down some steep hills to get to and from the trail; wayfinding is also poor, though it's slightly better with the painted sharrows. But Stephen Avenue itself isn't too bad.

 

[andrewpmk]

My assumption was that the valley was really tight around the railway crossing at Weston, which is why that's so delayed as a solution could be found. (And the construction of the bridge widening, of course.) I did not know that the few houses on Humberview Crescent had property rights right down to the river, so thanks for the update, Salsa.

The lower Humber gap is annoying more because you have to up and then down some steep hills to get to and from the trail; wayfinding is also poor, though it's slightly better with the painted sharrows. But Stephen Avenue itself isn't too bad.

It is easy enough to walk your bike a few blocks. You definitely do NOT want to ride a bike on Weston Road. These recreational trails and the Toronto Islands and Leslie Street Spit are the only places where it is safe to ride a bike in Toronto. Not surprisingly, there are large numbers of people riding bikes for recreational purposes on these bike paths and very few people riding bikes on busy roads which is extremely dangerous, with or without bike lanes.

 

[the lemur]

It is easy enough to walk your bike a few blocks. You definitely do NOT want to ride a bike on Weston Road.

How would you even know?

These recreational trails and the Toronto Islands and Leslie Street Spit are the only places where it is safe to ride a bike in Toronto.

Bullshit.

very few people riding bikes on busy roads which is extremely dangerous, with or without bike lanes.

See above.

Seriously, are you a bot or something? Every thing you post about bikes is hilarious concern-trolling. 'GUYS, RIDING A BIKE IS RIDICULOUSLY UNSAFE!'

 

[nfitz]

These recreational trails and the Toronto Islands and Leslie Street Spit are the only places where it is safe to ride a bike in Toronto.

What? That's beyond absurd.

Why tell such untruths? What complete and utter bullshit.

Surely nobody is this ignorant or uneducated. This must be trolling.

 

[muller877]

My assumption was that the valley was really tight around the railway crossing at Weston, which is why that's so delayed as a solution could be found. (And the construction of the bridge widening, of course.) I did not know that the few houses on Humberview Crescent had property rights right down to the river, so thanks for the update, Salsa.

The lower Humber gap is annoying more because you have to up and then down some steep hills to get to and from the trail; wayfinding is also poor, though it's slightly better with the painted sharrows. But Stephen Avenue itself isn't too bad.

Weston

Looking at the topo maps, it appears that behind the apartments there is a fairly steep cliff? Is there room for a trail at the bottom even if the land was expropriated? It looks like there are 2 lots south of the tracks that would need some expropriation and 3 or 4 north of the tracks. But if the slope is too steep to begin with it's a non-starter anyways.

Lower Humber:

The Humber has a very steep slope on both sides at the lower Humber gap. Rent a canoe/kayak underneath the Old Mill subway stop and paddle to see the problem. It's very unlikely that a solution could be found even if you expropriate property. One small tweak they could do is to add another way to the trail at the end of Berry/Stonegate (stairs/switchbacks). First time I tried to bike it I ended up at this dead end and I think many others do too. According to OpenData Toronto (http://map.toronto.ca/maps/map.jsp?app=OpenData), there is a right of way there.

Any thoughts about a new pedestrian/bike bridge would be a non-starter. Similar issues on the other side and the bridge would be massively long (plus would have to be high enough since the Humber is navigable up to the Old Mill.

 

[ShonTron]

These recreational trails and the Toronto Islands and Leslie Street Spit are the only places where it is safe to ride a bike in Toronto. Not surprisingly, there are large numbers of people riding bikes for recreational purposes on these bike paths and very few people riding bikes on busy roads which is extremely dangerous, with or without bike lanes.

By your logic, the only place where it's safe to drive a car is at Mosport race track.

You're on thin ice, andrewpmk.

 

[muller877]

That Southern gap does bother me.

More so that the short gap at Old Dundas Street. Bothers me why they couldn't join the bicycle path, unless they're going to rebuild the Old Dundas Street bridge over the Humber River (not).

Can you explain the issue at Old Dundas? If I'm travelling south from Scarlett I am first on the west side of the river. At the power lines I have to cross the river to the east side (dismounting because of the narrow bridge and pedestrians). I can continue on the east side until the Old Mill Bridge and then I have to go to the West side again.

Are you trying to get into the park on the west side between Dundas and Old Mill? There are no secondary exits, the exit from the park is a very steep climb out of the valley and it leads you almost to the same place.

(and same rationale going north PLUS its a one way street so also illegal)

Just trying to figure out why you want to have a duplicate route. Purpose?

 

[muller877]

Bingo, private property owners have no business blocking something like this that is clearly in the public interest. Some minimal compensation and take it away. I didn't actually think there were any homes in this section though…mostly just a couple ugly giant apartment buildings and a construction site.

Thank goodness we have property rights and the Supreme court who will protect property owners. Your profile name is so appropriate for this comment. Google Napoleon and Haussmann.

Let us see if it is feasible, then determine the property values and then the owners get the fair value for their property if it is in the public's interest (a legal process, not a kangaroo court). There is always a question as to what is fair value.

 

[the lemur]

Can you explain the issue at Old Dundas? If I'm travelling south from Scarlett I am first on the west side of the river. At the power lines I have to cross the river to the east side (dismounting because of the narrow bridge and pedestrians). I can continue on the east side until the Old Mill Bridge and then I have to go to the West side again.

Are you trying to get into the park on the west side between Dundas and Old Mill? There are no secondary exits, the exit from the park is a very steep climb out of the valley and it leads you almost to the same place.

(and same rationale going north PLUS its a one way street so also illegal)

Just trying to figure out why you want to have a duplicate route. Purpose?

I don't know where the power lines come into it but my understanding is that the break occurs riding north on the east side of the river: you have to go up to Lundy Ave and Old Dundas St and then back down to the trail under Dundas because there is (officially) no continuous trail along the river.

the exit from the park is a very steep climb out of the valley and it leads you almost to the same place

I can't picture where this is.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Can you explain the issue at Old Dundas? If I'm travelling south from Scarlett I am first on the west side of the river. At the power lines I have to cross the river to the east side (dismounting because of the narrow bridge and pedestrians). I can continue on the east side until the Old Mill Bridge and then I have to go to the West side again.

Going north, the bike path (the diagonal path to the right of the photo) connects with Lundy Avenue (on a hill). Riders then ride west on Old Dundas to reconnect with the bike path (the path under the Dundas Street West bridge). Riders have been known to dismount their bikes because of the hill (especially from riding all the way up from downtown).

There is a foot path that follows the river edge more closer, but riders should dismount to negotiate it (unless you're using a mountain bike). A solution would be to rebuild the footpath as a bicycle path.