General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)

[Erik T]

Where are all these law abiding Toronto motorists besides Chuck and TKTK? I see cars driving the wrong way on parts of streets to cut a turn illegally or save themselves the terrible pain of circling a whole block, I see cars weaving in and out of lanes all the time, cars that stop suddenly where they aren't supposed to because some dipsh*t is too lazy to walk half a block, cars in bike lanes, drivers blowing red lights night and day, drivers too engrossed on the cell phone to pay any attention to the road... these are not exceptions, these are all regular occurances. I just get tired of all these self righteous scumbags complaining about cyclists when drivers make Toronto roads decidedly unsafe, especially when they describe car drivers as people who only make a few, easily predictable unorthodox moves on the road. If "predictable" means "dangerous" and "irrationally stupid", then it could make sense, but that is not the case.

 

[ShonTron]

There's enough stupid cyclists out there - the ones that pass me on my bike as I'm waiting for the light, then I catch up to them and won't let me pass, the ones who go the wrong way in a bike lane, and I have to swerve to get out of their way (Queen's Quay East is horrible for this). And some do have that self-rightous attitude, 'tis true.

The worst I get is Chuck's "aggressive" driver by treating 4-way stops as yield signs. I also take advantage of being able to cut ahead in traffic by coasting along the curb, but that's something cyclists are allowed to do anyway. Real aggressive drivers are much worse than what Chuck describes though. They speed without care for anyone on the road driving their 3 tonne SUV, they blow through red lights making right turns (red means STOP, morons), they cut off cyclists, park whereever is convenient, they rush though lights on the right lane to merge ahead of more responsible drivers, pedestrians or cyclists be damned, they drive through open streetcar doors, they block intersections, they double park and play really crappy music really loud to make sure the whole world has to listen.

On the freeways and other major roads, they don't signal, they cut in front of cars, they tailgate, they go across three lanes of traffic (without even looking or signalling), they creep up in heavy traffic abusing merge lanes and paved shoulders, they tailgate, they speed often over 50% above the posted limit.

Yes there are bad cyclists, and they are a major fustration of mine, speaking as a pedestrian, a cyclist, motorist. But I've never come close to being hurt badly by a cyclist, and for every one cyclist I've yelled at, there would be at least 50 motorists I've yelled at.

 

[TKTKTK]

Yes there are bad cyclists, and they are a major fustration of mine, speaking as a pedestrian, a cyclist, motorist. But I've never come close to being hurt badly by a cyclist, and for every one cyclist I've yelled at, there would be at least 50 motorists I've yelled at.

Absolutely. I'm sure it's not coincidental that cars outnumber bicycles on the road by about 100 to 1.

Drivers can be bad on the roads, but they're also policed. I think if that courtesy was extended (more often) to cyclists, we'd start to see actual change on the streets.

 

[TrickyRicky]

But again the anger displayed in the arguments here is indicative of what is wrong with the attitudes of those using the roads. The road and sidewalk infrastructure is shared space. That means both knowing the rules AND realizing that at times sensible use of the space may result in breaking those rules. Every single user of the roads breaks the rules. Period. That is both fine and sensible so long as rule breaking is done with due consideration for and awareness of those around you. Aggressive and passive behaviour are both equally required for sensible use of the roads. Users who are either always aggressive or always passive are in my opinion the most dangerous.

 

[Urban Shocker]

I doubt if many pedestrians would be comfortable with the idea that those who are governed by the rules of the road - cyclists and drivers - see it as "sensible" to use the sidewalks whenever they feel like it because they see them as "shared space".

 

[rp07]

As a cyclist, I tried to obey all the rules of the road since we do share it with the drivers. The ones that gives us the bad rep are those who weave and out between cars like a maniac particularly some of the bike couriers I've seen in the downtown core.

 

[rp07]

Out of curiosity, are cyclists in TO required to pay license or registration fees? (ex-cyclist, but never two-wheeled it in TO)

As far as I know, NO.

 

[artgeek]

As far as I know, NO.

OK. So, would a licensing and fee structure levied at cyclists be a viable means of funding at least some of the infrastructure improvements that help would make TO a more cycle friendly city?

 

[Chuck]

I don't think there should be licensing or registration fees for bikes. They are environmentally friendly, healthy, and should be encouraged.

However, what I would support is aggressive policing. Lower the $250 fine that comes with most cycling offenses, but dramatically increase policing. I would see nothing wrong with cops handing out hundreds of fines a day that range in price from $10 to $50.

 

[rp07]

However, what I would support is aggressive policing. Lower the $250 fine that comes with most cycling offenses, but dramatically increase policing. I would see nothing wrong with cops handing out hundreds of fines a day that range in price from $10 to $50.

I have no problem with that if it helps get rid of some of the aggressive riders off the streets; however, it's very unlikely that's going to happen. How many times has cops stop a cyclists and book them for not obeying the rules of the road. They're too busy catching the real bad guys, the drivers (just kidding).

 

[samsonyuen]

As as motorcyclist, IMO if cyclists conducted themselves more like those on motorcycles, i.e. did not run stop signs, did not weave in and out of traffic, did not ride on sidewalks, did not pretend to be pedestrians and ride across crosswalks, used their hand signals and bell/horn, then perhaps they'd get a little more respect.

As a cyclist, I totally agree with this statment.

 

[Hydrogen]

As a cyclist and pedestrian, I, too, get steamed at some of the cycling idiocy to be seen. The trouble is that one can find it in other cities as well. There seems to be little expectation that cycling is anything more than mere recreation that can be done anywhere at any time. As a result, too many cyclists ride with impunity.

I don't like the idea of licences for bikes; but I would not mind seeing offenders getting ticketed for riding on sidewalks, crosswalks or going through stop signs and red lights. All bikes should have reflectors and a light for night riding.

Revenue should be generated by way of idiots using bikes, not by bike use.

 

[TrickyRicky]

"I doubt if many pedestrians would be comfortable with the idea that those who are governed by the rules of the road - cyclists and drivers - see it as "sensible" to use the sidewalks whenever they feel like it because they see them as "shared space"."

I was refering to pedestrians as well who are also governed by the rules of the road. Pedestrians are probably the most frequent rule violators of the three but then they are the least likely to cause injury to others through their rule breaking (although they often do). And yes, at times as both a driver and cyclist it can be sensible to encrouch on the sidewalk when it is safe and practice to do so. For instance if you are stuck driving behind a garbage truck on an inner city one-way street and they wave you past while doing a large pick-up do you mount the curb and pass or wait for 10 minute behind the truck irritating both the garbagemen and cars lining up behind you?

 

[Northern Light]

Bike Friendly

To answer the question, you need to define bike-friendly.

I would define bike-friendly as, any city/region which designs & operates its transportion infrastructure in a manner which makes cycling a viable and attractive choice to a significant number of commuters.

You judge this not by any precise stat on bike lanes or lockers or other infrastructure, nor by any single policy, but rather by looking at modal split of commuters that cyclists make up.

Even in the City of Toronto that figure remains under 1%. In Amsterdam the number is considerably higher, even Vancouver, its noticably higher.

So is the City cycle friendly today? NO

Is progress being made? YES

Too Slowly IMO.

*****

However, speaking of progress.

New bike lanes are set to go in this fall on Greenwood Avenue from Danforth to Queen.

Also look for new lanes on Carlaw (from just north of Gerrard)

And on Rogers Road.

Lanes are due to be approved on Pharmacy Ave. (south of Eglinton as well, but probably won't go in till spring '08.

*****

Also of note, since I saw the discussion on Wellesley...bike lanes on that road are likely in 2008.

******

The new secure bike-lockers at subway stations and some other sites (City Hall) are good, $10 per month to rent. Still too few, but more are coming.

******

All TTC buses are to have bike-racks by 2009.

******

No word yet on streetcars, though the new ones will be low-floor.

 

[ShonTron]

All new buses will have bike racks, so the remnant GM New Looks, Classics, Flyer D900s, New Flyer D40LFs, Orion V standards will have no racks, but most will be gone within 5-8 years. Older Orion VIIs (7400-7899) may get them later though.

Bus bike racks are great. I also believe that bike lockers at subway stations should be free with a Metropass. After all, a Metropass gets you free car parking at many of the lots.