BMO
Senior Member
I never noticed, but I think you guys are being a little harsh
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General cycling issues (Is Toronto bike friendly?)
- Thread starter rp07
- Start date
smably
Senior Member
Cycle TO has a sneak preview of the Bloor bike lane pilot design options.
Shaw to Spadina needs to be option A. Spadina to Avenue, I could accept either option A or option C.
Public open house is at Trinity-St. Paul's United Church, 427 Bloor St W, 4pm-8pm, December 2.
Shaw to Spadina needs to be option A. Spadina to Avenue, I could accept either option A or option C.
Public open house is at Trinity-St. Paul's United Church, 427 Bloor St W, 4pm-8pm, December 2.
Napoleon
Active Member
Nice to see this moving forward. I like the parking-buffered lanes. If it's just a normal bike lane, it has to have bollard and buffers like Option A. Really something more protective than bollards would be ideal.
the lemur
Senior Member
That's an absurd generalization, especially since we don't know how the collision occurred. It depends on the amount and type of separation.
As it stands, the Adelaide bike lane between Yonge and Victoria is almost entirely blocked by construction and cyclists are supposed to follow sharrows (which, of course, are more of a suggestion about where to ride):
East of Victoria, however, the protected lane continues. Since there isn't traffic in all four directions at this intersection, there is less potential for conflict (except where drivers decide to drive/park in the parts without bollards).
Attachments
GenerationW
Senior Member
Very brave of you to volunteer for that. Best wishes on your new adventure.
nfitz
Superstar
I've simply proposed that we stop trying to improve safety by eliminating cyclists. Though my wife has made some recommendations on the other front ...
W. K. Lis
Superstar
andrewpmk
Senior Member
A disproportionate number of bicyclists get injured or killed relative to the number of people who ride bikes. The number of people who drive is orders of magnitude higher than the number who ride bikes, so of course there will be more car accidents. A rather large percentage of serious car accidents are caused by impaired drivers. Also, I suspect that there are many minor bike accidents that are not reported to the police.
The fact of the matter is that bicycling in Toronto is dangerous. Isn't this rather obvious? There was a bike accident at Sheppard near Jane when I was writing this post. Yes, I know that I am going to have a hard time convincing other people in this forum, but the city put out a report a few months ago stating that bicycling is dangerous and that bike lanes are dangerous. Also I think that the vast majority of Toronto's population realizes this. Bicycles are a small percentage of the traffic downtown and you rarely see them in any other part of the city. Also the bike lanes downtown are filled with potholes, garbage, parked cars, streetcar tracks and other hazards.
The only way you are going to stop bike accidents is if you ban bicycling on major roads.
leopetr
Active Member
Vulnerable is a more accurate description than dangerous, I think.
Alternate approach to stop fatal bike-car crashes: Ban driving on major roads.
Adjei
Senior Member
nfitz
Superstar
I'd be more in favour of banning cars. Or banning people who suggest we should ban bikes.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
This seems rather radical to me.
I mean banning bikes on major roads (except for walking them on the sidewalk), not banning them altogther. I just do not think that there is any way to make bicycling on major roads safe. We have tried separated bike lanes on a few roads in Toronto and they have obvious safety problems (streetcar tracks, vehicles blocking them, construction blocking them, etc.) I know it will never happen with the current city council.
From the statistics I have read, the methods of transportation, in order of most dangerous to least dangerous: motorcycle, bicycle, walking, driving, bus, train.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
See http://webarchive.nationalarchives....h/rsrr/theme5/indepthstudyofmotorcycleacc.pdf
"Motorcyclists have an especially poor safety record when compared to other road user groups. Their killed and serious injury (KSI) rate in the UK, per million vehicle kilometres, is approximately twice that of pedal cyclists and over 16 times that of car drivers and passengers. Motorcyclists make up less than 1% of vehicle traffic but their riders suffer 14% of total deaths and serious injuries on Britain’s roads (DETR, 2000)."
In other words bicycling is 8x as dangerous as driving and riding a motorcycle is 16x as dangerous.
"Motorcyclists have an especially poor safety record when compared to other road user groups. Their killed and serious injury (KSI) rate in the UK, per million vehicle kilometres, is approximately twice that of pedal cyclists and over 16 times that of car drivers and passengers. Motorcyclists make up less than 1% of vehicle traffic but their riders suffer 14% of total deaths and serious injuries on Britain’s roads (DETR, 2000)."
In other words bicycling is 8x as dangerous as driving and riding a motorcycle is 16x as dangerous.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
Why are you using a study from the UK to prove that bicycling in Toronto is dangerous? Actually, why do you keep posting here if you hate bikes so much?
the lemur
Senior Member
We've barely begun to try separated bike lanes and the problems we've had with them stem not from the fact that that are separated bike lanes (or "separated bike lanes" as you like to call them) but from the fact that they have been implemented as insufficiently separated bike lanes: no real separation, too easy for vehicles to pull into them. Streetcars tracks aren't really an issue, since even a poorly separated bike lane provides an opportunity not to have to ride next to tracks or between cars and streetcars.
Also, if motorcycling is even more dangerous and there are probably more regular motorcyclists on the whole than cyclists, why not ban motorcycles? They're a hazard on city streets too.