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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

Miscreant said:
This is great to see, but what surprises me is that it appears no bikers are looking to jump ahead of other bikers, at least not recklessly. For years the College bike lane has been packed at rush hour, and bikers then start doubling up in bike lanes, recklessley passing, and 'crunching up' in the bike lane at stop lights. It turns into a bloody mess. So maybe we're learning how to use this infrastructure better now?
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There's still a bit of doubling up on that part of Richmond - crossing Spadina can get a bit chaotic because there are right-turning cars and some cyclists go around behind them (good) while others go in front (nooo) and then the two streams meet up again, and some riders really want to get ahead through that stretch and will run/jump the light at Brant.
 
the lemur said:
There's still a bit of doubling up on that part of Richmond - crossing Spadina can get a bit chaotic because there are right-turning cars and some cyclists go around behind them (good) while others go in front (nooo) and then the two streams meet up again, and some riders really want to get ahead through that stretch and will run/jump the light at Brant.
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Yeah, it really makes nervous when I see a bike coming up on the right behind a car that's already started turning right. The cyclists sometimes just think dinging their bell gives them right of way. So much safer to stop, look, and pass behind them on the left.
 
Many motorists don't realize that they should be turning from the curb - and that the dashed lines say as much, and right-turning cars should safely merge into the bike lane to make that turn. When you've got a car turning right from the general lane, I'm not sure if the motorist is expecting and waiting for cyclists to pass on the right, not understanding the safe turn maneuvre. You have three options in this case: try to get around on the left and hope there's room to do so (and watch for streetcar tracks), wait behind the car and get the red light watching other cyclists passing in front of you by going on the driver's right, or join the crowd.

I try to pass on the left, that's the safer and legal maneuvre. But yes, sometimes I'll end up in that crowd of cyclists passing to the right when the car's not in the right place and hasn't merged to the right.

But some cyclists are stupid. I rented a car last weekend, and was looking to turn right at Yonge and Lake Shore. I passed a cyclist riding in the lane, but once I got to the bike lane dashed lines and the red light, I merged to the curb, with my right-turn signal flashing. But the cyclist caught up, and decided to creep in the less than a foot between the car and the curb when he should have either waited behind me or gone around to my left. Sigh.
 
Hmm. Interesting discussion. I fully agree that it makes me nervous when I see cyclists pass on the right a car about to or in the process of turning right. But I don't agree that the proper manoeuver for the driver is to actually merge into the bike lane before turning right. For one, if this were the rule then it runs the risks of endangering cyclists who might be in a driver's blind spot at the moment he decides to move into the bike lane before his right hand turn. For another, I think too little mental separation between car lanes and bike lanes can encourage the attitude that bike lanes are just lanes that exist for drivers in those instances where they want to use them to their advantage.

The best solution, to my mind, is for drivers to wait for a clear bike lane before turning right, while at the same time for cyclists to merge to the left of the car as the driver waits to execute the turn. I think the underlying issue is that there's this belief that a cyclist shouldn't have to stop behind a car to wait for it to make its move. This is partly because stopping as a cyclist is annoying, as starting back up again takes more energy. The result is that cyclists start to foolishly either merge left to pass the right-turning car, or they foolishly try to sneak in on the right hand side before the turn, all in the interest of not stopping with traffic when necessary like other vehicles do.

But again, the problem would be solved if right-turning cars were safer and more patient, and if cyclists accepted that sometimes you just need to wait behind traffic until it's safe to proceed.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
(Bicycle helmets) It should be!
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As well as helmets, reflective vests, etc. for pedestrians as well?

surber_bikelightsFINAL.jpg


What else? Bubble wrap?
Protective%20sports.jpg
 
Miscreant said:
Hmm. Interesting discussion. I fully agree that it makes me nervous when I see cyclists pass on the right a car about to or in the process of turning right. But I don't agree that the proper manoeuver for the driver is to actually merge into the bike lane before turning right. For one, if this were the rule then it runs the risks of endangering cyclists who might be in a driver's blind spot at the moment he decides to move into the bike lane before his right hand turn. For another, I think too little mental separation between car lanes and bike lanes can encourage the attitude that bike lanes are just lanes that exist for drivers in those instances where they want to use them to their advantage.

The best solution, to my mind, is for drivers to wait for a clear bike lane before turning right, while at the same time for cyclists to merge to the left of the car as the driver waits to execute the turn. I think the underlying issue is that there's this belief that a cyclist shouldn't have to stop behind a car to wait for it to make its move. This is partly because stopping as a cyclist is annoying, as starting back up again takes more energy. The result is that cyclists start to foolishly either merge left to pass the right-turning car, or they foolishly try to sneak in on the right hand side before the turn, all in the interest of not stopping with traffic when necessary like other vehicles do.

But again, the problem would be solved if right-turning cars were safer and more patient, and if cyclists accepted that sometimes you just need to wait behind traffic until it's safe to proceed.
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ShonTron is correct. There are dashed lines for a reason. The bike lane here is a shared lane for both bikes and cars turning right. I've done this in a car several times where I have had bikes actually yell at me though...clearly not understanding the rules of the road.

There are problems with cars not knowing the rules is when they do not pull in behind the bikes but beside them in planning for a right turn

Maybe we need public service announcements for both cars and bikes. So everyone knows the rules. Better than having Del Duca re-announcing 1 new bus on a GO route every week and then the gov't wasting our money with ads for the same thing.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
It should be!
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For riding a pokey bikeshare bike in Kensington Market or Queens Quay?

Surely you jest.

Riding a pokey-slow upright Bike Share Toronto bike WITHOUT a helmet is safter than riding a kneel-over race-type bike WITH helmet. I vote against anyone who mandates helmets for 40 year old people riding slow upright city-oriented bikes. They are slow, highly visible, force cyclists to keep head higher (see cars better).

Bike Share Bikes safer than own Bike

Certainly even a 40 year old need a helmet for some of the Toronto roads you cycle on....BUT NOT ON ALL OF THE ROUTES. Protest against helmets (except under 18).

Yes, there is even a TED TALK recommending against mandatory helmet law. WATCH IT before you Reply.


Such stupidity of a blanket recommendations.
Helmets are important, but blanket-requiring it?

I have more. Here is Europe, low death rate without helmets, here you go:


I am a car driver and I KNOW some cyclists can be dumb. But shaddup and read/watch above, then reply. I have plenty more to say, all the above is just a small sampling of why mandatory blanket law on cycle helmets, "everywhere, all ages, no matter what", is stupid. Ready, Juan_Lennon416?

Toronto downtown is gradually becoming safer for cyclists, thanks to the expansion in protected cycle tracks (some steps backwards like cars parking in Adelaide/Richmond lanes -- but they are going to install a permanent raised curb eventually). As this infrastructure expands, and some streets gain more cyclists than cars during rush (like College did at times), it becomes even safer to cycle on a per-capita basis. Those saying "We arent Europe" need to cycle on College on a busy day to realize Europe is here already and is spreading bit by bit.
 
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Mind you, I am okay with mandatory helmets for kids (for current Ontario road design and Ontario drivers).
But I can totally appreciate a country that has made their roads safe enough for kids to cycle without mandatory helmet law.

Even THIS car driver will have a protest sign against mandatory adult helmet law (BARRF!) but I have nothing against requiring helmets for kids for maximum child safety.
 
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To be fair, I was in Copenhagen last week and saw a ton of helmets. Way more than I remembered from last visit. Becoming the norm even there.
 
Although the wide lanes are nice, I do wish the city's transportation planners would back off their insistence that the "minimum acceptable width" for protected bike lanes be as wide as it is. I don't have details regarding the specific mandated width, but in talking with transportation planners about certain design decisions at the Bloor bike lanes consultation, they explained that their minimum width assumptions affect both design and prioritization of routes across the city (I believe protected contra-flow lanes are the exception).

I'd very gladly trade some width, even if it meant to passing within the bike lane, for a wider network if that meant there was a broader array of potential routing.
 
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