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Crowding Bloor/Yonge

B

buildup

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Tonite, Friday 5:45pm, someone felt the need to press the emergency stop on the descending escalator to the East/West line to prevent further crowding. There was also someone asking the TTC to get a crowd control officer down there.
With the DT Relief line a decade away, I'd be curious to know the failed leadership was. Eveyone saw this coming, its now a dangerous situation it seems.
 
Why even have a thread on this? Of course the Bloor-Yonge station is overcrowded, and any sane city would bite the bullet and expand it while building DRL But this is Toronto, so we can only make transit investments in really low density suburbs where demand will never make the projects economic. Because folks in Scarborough deserve subways, just like the good people at Bessarion. Nothing will ever change. Actually I take that back - with population growth and all of our pathetically inadequate transit investments devoted to the projects that will move the fewest people at the highest cost, mobility will only get worse. I'm just glad the Justice for Scarborough crowd will have to transfer at Yonge if they want to go downtown.
 
In all seriousness, we do need a discussion - but more about "Plan B".

We know this problem is there and the proper solution is realistically 15 years away. (and that solution will just keep pace with ridership growth, not empty B/Y..... so we will be talking about managing the crowding there in perpetuity).

I don't think it's dramatic to predict there will be a fatality there.... not necessarily someone falling on the tracks, more likely a stairwell 'stampede'. If that has to happen, let it be before the next mayoral/council election so that at least the whole thing can't be kicked down the road in a buck-passing exercise.

By Plan B I am talking about "temporary" surface relief..... dedicated transit routes that give people an alternative to a Bloor/Yonge transfer. I would have a dedicated busway from Rosedale station down Bay to Queen, letting people get off before the junction. Also relieves Line 2 . Similarly one that goes from Rosedale over to Sherbourne or down Jarvis. Outbound, the attractive option would be to board before the junction....eg eastbound passengers would board at Bay, not Sherbourne. Dedicated lanes on both Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant as far north as Eglinton, with the idea that in that zone there is no local service as the trains are already full.

It would be nice to dream LRT, but that takes too long to build. But it is reasonable to think that we could shift maybe 1500 people per hour at peak, which is a little breathing room anyways until the relief line(s) arrive.

The price would be the screams from downtown motorists who lose some auto lanes.... but that is where the city is going anyways, might as well meet that challenge head on.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
In all seriousness, we do need a discussion - but more about "Plan B".

We know this problem is there and the proper solution is realistically 15 years away. (and that solution will just keep pace with ridership growth, not empty B/Y..... so we will be talking about managing the crowding there in perpetuity).

I don't think it's dramatic to predict there will be a fatality there.... not necessarily someone falling on the tracks, more likely a stairwell 'stampede'. If that has to happen, let it be before the next mayoral/council election so that at least the whole thing can't be kicked down the road in a buck-passing exercise.

By Plan B I am talking about "temporary" surface relief..... dedicated transit routes that give people an alternative to a Bloor/Yonge transfer. I would have a dedicated busway from Rosedale station down Bay to Queen, letting people get off before the junction. Also relieves Line 2 . Similarly one that goes from Rosedale over to Sherbourne or down Jarvis. Outbound, the attractive option would be to board before the junction....eg eastbound passengers would board at Bay, not Sherbourne. Dedicated lanes on both Avenue Road and Mount Pleasant as far north as Eglinton, with the idea that in that zone there is no local service as the trains are already full.

It would be nice to dream LRT, but that takes too long to build. But it is reasonable to think that we could shift maybe 1500 people per hour at peak, which is a little breathing room anyways until the relief line(s) arrive.

The price would be the screams from downtown motorists who lose some auto lanes.... but that is where the city is going anyways, might as well meet that challenge head on.

- Paul
Click to expand...

They can start by giving absolute priority to ensuring smooth transit operation during rush - short of catastrophies simple medical emergencies should be reported and dealt with further down the line, not stopping the train and awaiting EMS at the closest station. Like report the incident, have EMS ready at whatever stop ahead that they can get to first, get on and deboard that individual. Triage on platform.

Beyond that point, it's time to rethink how the station itself is operated - the inordinate amount of crap/distractions has to go - everything should be focused on directing flows. No Gateways, no lotto counters, no buskers, no ad folks, no waitng for someone. Move - or begone.

AoD
 
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I wonder about having dedicated EMS on hand 0700-0900 and 1600-1800, to cut down response time. It would be interesting to see the stats on incidents at each station. Having a single paramedic already on hand who can reach patients quickly and triage them, while the normal First responders are making their way to the scene, would cut minutes off delays especially for minor injuries and fainting spells.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
I wonder about having dedicated EMS on hand 0700-0900 and 1600-1800, to cut down response time. It would be interesting to see the stats on incidents at each station. Having a single paramedic already on hand who can reach patients quickly and triage them, while the normal First responders are making their way to the scene, would cut minutes off delays especially for minor injuries and fainting spells.

- Paul
Click to expand...

That's only helpful for trouble at Y+B - which is not very useful when you are shutting the line even for 15 minutes elsewhere. TTC need to change their policy on how medicals are dealt with (and I am sure they would be scared s***less by the liability issues).

AoD
 
While we would all surely concede, that w/o budgetary or logistical challenges, the lower level needs a new dedicated platform, for the eastbound direction, and the upstairs mezzanines need to be widened accordingly, yesterday; this is, however, a solution 6-8 years out, assuming there are no major structures needing to be moved/removed and that at least a 1/2 a billion drops out of the sky.

A more short-term approach would seek to take everyone possible out of the mezzanine (those not transferring between lines; and balance the load on the lower level platform as much as is possible.

I would suggest 2 projects, one, constructing a new entrance/exit off the east end of the lower platform, that would not furnish any access to Line 1, but instead be a direct exit to/from Bloor.

The second suggestion would be to find a way to divert more traffic into the same type of exit which already exists at the lower platform's western end.

It doesn't pull as many people as it could, in part, because it is not really connected to the Hudson's Bay Centre mall.

It is, however, adjacent to said property, and I think a direct connection should be feasible (I haven't examined the interior layouts to be sure) .

Such a connection, directing mall users to the other entrance might reduce the strain just a bit.

Ideally the new eastern connection would also set the stairs/escalator back just a bit, to crew a 2-4M of extra platform waiting area, just a 'relief' mechanism.
 
crs1026 said:
I wonder about having dedicated EMS on hand 0700-0900 and 1600-1800, to cut down response time. It would be interesting to see the stats on incidents at each station. Having a single paramedic already on hand who can reach patients quickly and triage them, while the normal First responders are making their way to the scene, would cut minutes off delays especially for minor injuries and fainting spells.
Click to expand...

TTC looked at that during the Miller years. I believe (but haven't hunted for documents confirming) the result was to make those positions permanent.

https://www.ttc.ca/News/2008/August/TTC _and_Toronto_EMS_Launch_Paramedic_Pilot_Project.jsp
 
Having reflected a bit more - having one paramedic in one station is not that helpful if a medical emergency anywhere along the line causes trains to hold up everywhere on the line. A medical emergency at Old Mill can lead to crowding at B/Y just as much as one right at B/Y.

I wonder, though, if there are points where incidents happen more often. I'd speculate that it's just a simple function of passenger volume.

- Paul
 
sixrings said:
Don't worry the danforth extension to stc will solve this.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Nothing says stupid like Toronto transit planning. NL makes some compelling suggestions, but they all require this suburb-dominated Council to agree to them, and they are all impossible because they expand service in high-demand downtown areas, and/or marginally reduce the space devoted to car lanes in the core.
 
Northern Light said:
While we would all surely concede, that w/o budgetary or logistical challenges, the lower level needs a new dedicated platform, for the eastbound direction, and the upstairs mezzanines need to be widened accordingly, yesterday; this is, however, a solution 6-8 years out, assuming there are no major structures needing to be moved/removed
Click to expand...
HBC building foundations are the blocker.

It's a bit annoying that there is lots of presence including announcers and constables on the Yonge line in the mornings, which has lots more platform space and two of them, whereas there is almost never any TTC personnel on the Line 2 platform in the PM rush. Maybe if they trained the regular panhandler presence in crowd control and resetting escalators...
 
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