Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Steve X]

The max capacity would decrease with Alstom trains.

1. Underground portion of Eglinton should be able to fit a 2 set articulated BBD tram. Total 200 meters. But it won't fit a 2 set Alstom tram. So 40 meters lost.
2. The trains may be too long to fit into far side intersection stops on the surface section of Ellington and finch.

What? No. That's just wrong. Don't cook up your own false assumption. It was planned to be 3 car lengths from the start. Underground stations are ~100m long and so are the platforms. They can fit either 3-car 30m LRVs or 2-car 48m LRVs.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...ownSlidesCombinedPresentationFINAL.pdf#page=9
http://thecrosstown.ca/sites/defaul...en_house_april_5_17_final_website.pdf#page=42

Finch is however only planned for 2-car LRVs. 96m trains are too long for Finch's planned platform length but they haven't started construction while detail engineering designs are only 10% completed. So they could change that.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Rendering with Mx livery:

 

[Allandale25]

Metrolinx statement here.

 

[muller877]

How do you figure that? Metrolinx is padding the cupboard.

Metrolinx now has 180 + 60 LRT's on order. 240 in total. They will have to pay Alstrom a commitment fee for the order so they've locked in (unless they want to pay cash for nothing...which does not surprise me with the Fiberal's)

ELRT will have 60
KW = 14
Hurontario = 44 (however they have already asked for a quote for other trains)
Finch (if it is ever built) = 23
rest of the lines = beyond the timeframe of this order or even 5 years after

Total = 141

So where are the other 99 cars going? Padding the pockets of corporations with break fees from this boondoggle from Wynne. Would love to see how much "lobbying" Alstrom does with the Liberals

It's like the Liberals went out and bought a new car whey they turned 16. And then failed the driving test. Again and again.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

From Alstom statement:

Alstom will supply Metrolinx a 48-metre Citadis Spirit, which has a passenger capacity of 321.

 

[Allandale25]

Cameron from CodeRedTO has the surplus listed as follows in a tweet here:

Metrolinx now has 180 + 60 LRT's on order. 240 in total. They will have to pay Alstrom a commitment fee for the order so they've locked in (unless they want to pay cash for nothing...which does not surprise me with the Fiberal's)

ELRT will have 60
KW = 14
Hurontario = 44 (however they have already asked for a quote for other trains)
Finch (if it is ever built) = 23
rest of the lines = beyond the timeframe of this order or even 5 years after

Total = 141

So where are the other 99 cars going? Padding the pockets of corporations with break fees from this boondoggle from Wynne. Would love to see how much "lobbying" Alstrom does with the Liberals

It's like the Liberals went out and bought a new car whey they turned 16. And then failed the driving test. Again and again.

 

[gweed123]

Cameron from CodeRedTO has the surplus listed as follows in a tweet here:

Thanks for that! Hamilton also hasn't decided what vehicles it will use, or exactly how many it will need, so it could chew up a pretty big chunk of those. There's also the Eglinton east and west extensions, and iON Phase II that haven't been factored into the order yet. I don't think there will be any problem finding homes for these "surplus" vehicles. Fear not muller877, this won't be another "Fiberal" (seriously? come on) "disaster". This is a prudent hedging of bets to avoid paying $500,000 per day in late fees if Eglinton can't open on time.

 

[steveintoronto]

"Fiberal" (seriously? come on) "disaster".

lol...when people bring totally uncalled for political jargon into an engineering discussion, they automatically discount themselves from being taken seriously....seriously.

It's too soon to fully tell, but this might be one of the best 'misfortunes' to happen to Metrolinx. Like tripping over a chest of gold, and then complaining about stubbing your toe. Btw: I'm exploring whether the fifth module can be added into the four module one on order. It appears to be the case, but I want written text reference.

Back later on that.

 

[steveintoronto]

Here is a rough comparison of the two trains

I'm still looking for more definitive engineering reference, but if we can trust the PR, (and I see indications of this being the case elsewhere) then a fifth module can be added in (some Citadis models in France have *seven* modules, but there may technical pre-requisites as per model specs):

[...]
The Citadis Spirit is the most versatile solution for meeting a broad
range of transit needs in growing cities. Thanks to its modular design,
the Spirit can grow with a city as its transportation needs evolve. Citadis
Spirit can be applied as a solution to meet initial service requirements
and then be expanded to meet increased ridership by adding additional
modules to extend the length of the vehicles while optimizing fleet
asset life. The Spirit also has the unique capability to operate as a
streetcar running at grade in mixed traffic and as a light commuter on
segregated rail infrastructure at speeds up to 65 mph, providing very
high capacity in its longest versions or in multiple units. In its automatic
version with high capacity vehicles, the Spirit can fulfill transit needs
similar to those of a metro system.
[...]
http://www.alstom.com/Global/Transp... Spirit - Brochure - EN.pdf?epslanguage=en-GB

With added modules, the maximizing of passenger load per train length increases v coupling train sections together. One presumes all bogies are driven for performance not to be reduced as a consequence.

Still digging on this.

 

[Ozman]

Metrolinx talks about the penalty they'll have to pay to Crosslinx (the contractor) if the vehicles are late. Is this normal for a customer to agree to pay the contractor they hired to build the project a penalty fee if part of the project isn't supplied to the contractor on time?

If I understand this correctly: Bombardier will have to pay Metrolinx $1,ooo per day per vehicle for every day that the Flexity Freedoms are late delivered. Meanwhile, Metrolinx has agreed to pay the Crosslinx consortium $500,000 per day (per vehicle?) for everyday the vehicles are late, presumably because the line can't be finished/tested/commissioned without vehicles). So Metrolinx will be losing $499,000 per day (per vehicle?).

Meanwhile Bombardier has been sub-contracted by Crosslinx to do signalling and ATC for the line. Will this work smoothly if they have to put they ATC modules on Alstom trains?

What a mess.

Please correct me if I haven't got any of the above correct and enlighten me or expand.

 

[syn]

The Alstom trains definitely look better.

I'm glad the province made a move on this. Supporting local companies is great, but Bombardier seems like a company that should've been out of business a long time ago.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Rendering with Mx livery:

This looks terrible. Hopefully this is just a quick render thrown together for the announcement, and not a reflection of final design.

 

[Steve X]

This looks terrible. Hopefully this is just a quick render thrown together for the announcement, and not a reflection of final design.

Remember how the Flexity streetcars looked in the render.

Thank god they didn't end up looking like a shiny silver tank.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

This looks terrible. Hopefully this is just a quick render thrown together for the announcement, and not a reflection of final design.

I'm thinking it is. But then again, queue the debate over whetehr these will end up being TTC or Metrolinx branded...

 

[Leo_Chan]

I'm thinking it is. But then again, queue the debate over whetehr these will end up being TTC or Metrolinx branded...

Right in the middle: Orange, on Line 5, Eglinton Line, Eglinton Crosstown, Midtown Line, Orange Line, Cheap Subway Line, Expensive Streetcar Line. Whatever you want to call it.

IMO, it would be both TTC and Metrolinx branded with an orange colour scheme.